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New England Early August Discussion, banter, obs


Baroclinic Zone

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The airmass sucks. For those pinning all there hopes for high dews on getting an EF3 in their neighborhood....good luck to that..lol. I'll take the odds on that and rather have more comfortable air.

At least we busted the drought conditions over most of the area with this airmass. Since that change in pattern near the end of the July to more moist flow, all sites are either at or above normal on the summer now for rainfall.

We still have a deficit going back to last winter (since winter was bone dry), but at least it hasn't built upon itself in the summer.

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At least we busted the drought conditions over most of the area with this airmass. Since that change in pattern near the end of the July to more moist flow, all sites are either at or above normal on the summer now for rainfall.

We still have a deficit going back to last winter (since winter was bone dry), but at least it hasn't built upon itself in the summer.

We went from the worst drought of our lives, to highest dews of our lives according to some.

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may that hold from now until april...

One can only hope. Summers have been -NAO prone recently. Why, I do not know...some say heat flux from the arctic...but I have a hard time seeing how that heat flux can build strong ridging at times overhead. Maybe it's part of it...I really don't know. You could argue the decadal cycle too I suppose.

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At least we busted the drought conditions over most of the area with this airmass. Since that change in pattern near the end of the July to more moist flow, all sites are either at or above normal on the summer now for rainfall.

We still have a deficit going back to last winter (since winter was bone dry), but at least it hasn't built upon itself in the summer.

Yeah i thought this summer would be bad,also coming off the dry winter. It got pretty bad down here during mid july, yet scooter was talking about a wetter pattern taking shape..he was correct...lawns are back to green here now

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-3SD -NAO on the euro emsembles. That's gonna shake things up.

That certainly helps, though as you can see most of the summer has featured a strongly -NAO. I think the real driver is the flip in the Pacific/West coast pattern to more of an el nino look. Also, that ridiculous polar vortex we have in the arctic breaks down and sends the first real meaningful below average air into North America for as long as I can remember at this point lol...hence the pattern has a later fall wavelength look to it with a +PNA/-NAO fully correlating to what you would expect in the cool season... I'm wondering if we revert back to the earlier summer pattern at times for later August/September, or if we are pulling a general cold turkey switch in the pattern moving forward.

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That certainly helps, though as you can see most of the summer has featured a strongly -NAO. I think the real driver is the flip in the Pacific/West coast pattern to more of an el nino look. Also, that ridiculous polar vortex we have in the arctic breaks down and sends the first real meaningful below average air into North America for as long as I can remember at this point lol...hence the pattern has a later fall wavelength look to it with a +PNA/-NAO fully correlating to what you would expect in the cool season... I'm wondering if we revert back to the earlier summer pattern at times for later August/September, or if we are pulling a general cold turkey switch in the pattern moving forward.

The nice MJO wave is certainly helping, that may be a decent looking wave moving into P1. The EC takes the wave and bring it to the COD before coming back out in p6.Earlier models had it back into P5 which probably would have brought the heat back. So I guess the risk is more warmth for sure, but the MJO as usual isn't a clear forecast right now.With Nino coming on..maybe it's not so warm...I really can't say.

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That GOA vortex is migrating west toward the Aleutions. That would certainly be a good thing heading into winter. If we set up a vortex south or SSW of the Aleutions come December, we will have a very high chance of a cold/snowy winter.

There's still a lot of time though before that point. The further west placement is one of the reasons for the models showing cooler air down into the CONUS. Also the first hint of wavlengths beginning to lengthen again...a process that won't really become noticeable for another 4-6 weeks.

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The nice MJO wave is certainly helping, that may be a decent looking wave moving into P1. The EC takes the wave and bring it to the COD before coming back out in p6.Earlier models had it back into P5 which probably would have brought the heat back. So I guess the risk is more warmth for sure, but the MJO as usual isn't a clear forecast right now.With Nino coming on..maybe it's not so warm...I really can't say.

Very true with regards to the MJO, neglected to mention that. Phase 8-1 is well correlated this time of year to a cool down in the Plains..This cool down is more on the widespread/anomalous side though. Unfortunately the euro MJO forecasts havent updated on cpc since the 6th, so I'm not sure what to make of where that wave is heading...that's also the last day the glaam was updated, so real big help lol...SOI also supports the nino tendencies here.

I guess it wouldnt completely surprise me, following 2 years of la nina with a clear atmospheric hang over through this July, if our change to a more el nino atmospheric pattern was very abrupt. In the end though I would agree with you that there should probably be some waves of warmth returning, just nothing nearly as anomalously warm as the past few weeks.

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Both Joe's over there are going for something like 02-03 77-78 for the winter...shouldn't be a surprise to anyone, but that's what they are barking

I don't think the current state of the PDO is going to allow for a 2002-esque flip and subsequent Pacific pattern (ditto '77-'78)...but its hard to say for sure. The ECMWF seasonal had a PAC pattern very similar to '02-'03 but I don't believe it yet.

2009 had a horrific vortex over AK in November but it broke down and the pattern flipped remarkably in December...however, with a more potent Nino, it was probably easier to force the change. If we got that again this year, I wouldn't feel good about it.

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That certainly helps, though as you can see most of the summer has featured a strongly -NAO. I think the real driver is the flip in the Pacific/West coast pattern to more of an el nino look. Also, that ridiculous polar vortex we have in the arctic breaks down and sends the first real meaningful below average air into North America for as long as I can remember at this point lol...hence the pattern has a later fall wavelength look to it with a +PNA/-NAO fully correlating to what you would expect in the cool season... I'm wondering if we revert back to the earlier summer pattern at times for later August/September, or if we are pulling a general cold turkey switch in the pattern moving forward.

The only real change I see besides the obvious height reversal in the eastern CONUS is across the NP into Siberia where anomalies have reversed. This ends up mimicking a cool season setup to some degree.

However, the Pacific is still the same. Since late July, the pattern has been a state of progression and now is beginning to head back to retrogression.

http://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/intraseasonal/500hgt_5dintvl.gif

If the ECMWF ensemble anomalies for the WPO region were to be realized in the cold season, the upcoming cold shot wouldn't be all that anomalous IMO.

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The nice MJO wave is certainly helping, that may be a decent looking wave moving into P1. The EC takes the wave and bring it to the COD before coming back out in p6.Earlier models had it back into P5 which probably would have brought the heat back. So I guess the risk is more warmth for sure, but the MJO as usual isn't a clear forecast right now.With Nino coming on..maybe it's not so warm...I really can't say.

I don't think the true MJO wave is in phase 8-1 and that possibly kelvin wave activity is obscuring the signal and internal Walker Cell dynamics of the developing El Nino. It is quite possible that the true MJO is further east already.

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I don't think the true MJO wave is in phase 8-1 and that possibly kelvin wave activity is obscuring the signal and internal Walker Cell dynamics of the developing El Nino. It is quite possible that the true MJO is further east already.

Yeah I guess it's possible with the best OLR near the Philippines and then further east in the EPAC.

One thing I do notice is that the main vortex and coldest air is over in Russia now and looks to retro towards Europe.

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The only real change I see besides the obvious height reversal in the eastern CONUS is across the NP into Siberia where anomalies have reversed. This ends up mimicking a cool season setup to some degree.

However, the Pacific is still the same. Since late July, the pattern has been a state of progression and now is beginning to head back to retrogression.

http://www.cpc.ncep....hgt_5dintvl.gif

If the ECMWF ensemble anomalies for the WPO region were to be realized in the cold season, the upcoming cold shot wouldn't be all that anomalous IMO.

Yeah I guess you are right, there arent really any major changes going on with the heights out west since ~ the 20th..I was making a wrong assumption there.

From an upcoming sensible weather standpoint though, it just seems like things are changing drastically. Aside from the obvious cooler changes ongoing for the Plains/Midwest through the 6-10 day, we have 90s-100s on the way for Seattle-Portland at the end of the week...with aboves out west continuing..Also, it is expected to reach the 90s in London this week, a huge change from the cool weather theyve had alll summer.

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Low 60s, but it feels a hell of a lot better. I do think we'll see some relief next week. The long range is changing a bit. The 570 thickness contour which has been a permanent fixture struggles to get here. So while it may be a little above normal in the 11-15 day, the back is slowly cracking on this.

I'm done with this airmass, it's a waste of a summertime enjoyment. After this week, it looks like we get a well deserved break in some shape or form. Might not be always refreshing, but it will be a break.

A day 8-10 euro op cool down or any cool down for the matter should be taken with a grain of salt if the ensembles are meh about it...which they were. At least this time around, the hemispheric pattern is changing. Sure it might not be pure Canadian air here, but it probably will be a break from this swamp of recently. September can still be very warm and humid so it doesn't always mean we cool because we head into late August. I can't wait to rid this puke airmass. If I wanted to live in A/C, I would move to FL.

Scootie ftw :bike:

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That GOA vortex is migrating west toward the Aleutions. That would certainly be a good thing heading into winter. If we set up a vortex south or SSW of the Aleutions come December, we will have a very high chance of a cold/snowy winter.

There's still a lot of time though before that point. The further west placement is one of the reasons for the models showing cooler air down into the CONUS. Also the first hint of wavlengths beginning to lengthen again...a process that won't really become noticeable for another 4-6 weeks.

Yep. I started noticing this a week or 2 ago and my optimism rose. Not the same enso state but this summer evolution is starting to remind me of 1995 from late July onward.

I am starting to feel mighty good about the upcoming winter!

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