Skivt2 Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 Another great day on the hill today. Big spring bumps and no crowd. It's going to be hard to wait for the next cold snap for the lifts to spin again!!! I heard a little over 400 people skied this weekend. For a little while we can enjoy being the only 400 people in North American to have started lift served skiing (sorry rope tows don't count). That's bragging rights . I have skied 2 days so far this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N. OF PIKE Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 killington kicking asz , very nice to hear. hope they stay open to june 1 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BowMeHunter Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 need some messenger in this thread to calm the mountain weenies down Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skierinvermont Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 Well it's pretty cool to be skiing in October, but not my type of skiing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugarloaf1989 Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 For a little while we can enjoy being the only 400 people in North American to have started lift served skiing (sorry rope tows don't count). Not quite, as Timberline Lodge was opened this past weekend for lift serviced skiing as well. Still it's good to see Killington back in the early season game. I'll be more impressed if June 1st skiing comes back again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbutts Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 Not my pics.. found them on killingtonzone.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbutts Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 need some messenger in this thread to calm the mountain weenies down I'll give it a shot. Killington reporting 62f right now, lifts are not spinning, and it looks like it's already pretty much melted out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hitman Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 where would one find a list of annual snowfall at vermont ski mountains? I see the average snowfall all over the place but can't seem to find a list by year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powderfreak Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 where would one find a list of annual snowfall at vermont ski mountains? I see the average snowfall all over the place but can't seem to find a list by year. Its not going to be easy to get that information... Here is Stowe's last 15 years of snowfall... 2000-2001 is king of them all. The two worst on the list are within the past 3 years. Last year was by far the worst in the last 15 years. Also, I remember at the time thinking what are the chances that 06-07 and 08-09 come in with exactly the same number of inches during the operating season. Which leads to the last point, this is only snowfall during the operating season, and does not count October snowfall or snowfall after closing day. Some years that can be quite significant like last year's 36-inch mid-April event. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tamarack Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 Yeah you gotta have great snowmaking if you're only averaging 167 inches of snow annually at the summit... Sorry couldn't resist They really do market their brand quite well, to the point that you hear "Sunday River" and immediately think snowmaking. Seems kinda low, considering that Rangeley, 30 miles north but at 1,530' about 1,500' below SR summits, averages 120". Shadowing by the Presidentials? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skierinvermont Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 Seems kinda low, considering that Rangeley, 30 miles north but at 1,530' about 1,500' below SR summits, averages 120". Shadowing by the Presidentials? Yes I would say it is both due to downsloping and a lack of upsloping. Elevation doesn't really matter that much in NW Maine because there is not nearly as much upslope like there is in the greens. In the greens a couple thousand feet of elevation can give incredible lift and double the snow average. In Maine, the primary reason you get more snow at elevation is just staying snow in marginal events where the surface is warm. IIRC MWN also 'only' averages 220".. so 167" 3000 feet lower makes sense given you're looking right at MWN from SR. There's also a pretty tight N-S temp gradient I noticed last winter. There were several storms where I stayed 90% snow and ended as some freezing drizzle and drizzle, while Sunday River was 50% snow 50% pouring rain and ZR. I think 3 of the 4 or 5 biggest snowstorms at Saddleback last winter mixed in the final few hours. We were right on the edge of the all snow line... Sunday river changed over much earlier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoarfrostHubb Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 What is Stowe's all time record? 2000-2001 is awesome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoarfrostHubb Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 I wonder if the summit of Wachusett even averages 90"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hitman Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 Its not going to be easy to get that information... Here is Stowe's last 15 years of snowfall... 2000-2001 is king of them all. The two worst on the list are within the past 3 years. Last year was by far the worst in the last 15 years. Also, I remember at the time thinking what are the chances that 06-07 and 08-09 come in with exactly the same number of inches during the operating season. Which leads to the last point, this is only snowfall during the operating season, and does not count October snowfall or snowfall after closing day. Some years that can be quite significant like last year's 36-inch mid-April event. Thanks. Thats representative of the others. I was curious as to the highs and lows. I wonder why that info is so hard to come by. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powderfreak Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 Seems kinda low, considering that Rangeley, 30 miles north but at 1,530' about 1,500' below SR summits, averages 120". Shadowing by the Presidentials? That's what the ski area marketing materials list as average snowfall at the summit. I have no idea on the accuracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powderfreak Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 Yes I would say it is both due to downsloping and a lack of upsloping. Elevation doesn't really matter that much in NW Maine because there is not nearly as much upslope like there is in the greens. In the greens a couple thousand feet of elevation can give incredible lift and double the snow average. In Maine, the primary reason you get more snow at elevation is just staying snow in marginal events where the surface is warm. IIRC MWN also 'only' averages 220".. so 167" 3000 feet lower makes sense given you're looking right at MWN from SR. Interesting point on the differences in elevation and snowfall between VT and ME. I had never really thought of that but it makes sense. Most winter snowfalls will see at least 2-3" more fall at the top than the bottom, and upslope events can almost double from bottom to top. Often due to more saturated environment and much better localized lift. I think the higher RH at elevation has a large thing to do with it...I've seen massive fluffy dendrites at 3500ft be reduced to pin point flakes 2000ft lower when falling through dry CAA air. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastalWx Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 Seems kinda low, considering that Rangeley, 30 miles north but at 1,530' about 1,500' below SR summits, averages 120". Shadowing by the Presidentials? The thing about Maine vs VT is that Maine is a snowpack retention dream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tamarack Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 The thing about Maine vs VT is that Maine is a snowpack retention dream. Synoptic vs upslope (or LE), plus a better chance of pack-hardeners like IP once one gets down under 1,000'. Makes for a solid snowcover. If the 167" comes from SR folks themselves, I doubt they would be lowballing. I take the MWN snowfall totals with a large grain of salt, not because of any lack of effort or expertise in the measurement, but of the all-but-impossible job of accurately measuring the fluff during gale/hurricane-force winds. (And my numbers, from UCC, have MWN at 280" for 1981-2010, down from 313" for 1971-2000; trading a 350" decade for one averaging 260".) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powderfreak Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 The thing about Maine vs VT is that Maine is a snowpack retention dream. Yeah especially for the lower elevations. I'm not convinced that Sunday River retains any better than Mansfield's northeast facing slopes at elevation. But that might be due to a higher snowpack to begin with. But I still think natural snow lingers on Mansfield longer than SR. ME without a doubt wins snow depth days most winters...VT takes the cake in number of pow days though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powderfreak Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 In a perfect world we could have VTs upslope and ME retention...haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powderfreak Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 And regarding MWN...I also treat that with a grain of salt. It's like Mansfield and how the coop measures in a can...snow flies over it horizontally. Take so far this season...I'm at around 6.5" on the season at the top and the coop is at 3.5". The biggest was the first snowfall where I have pics proving 4" while the summit can only collected 1.5". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastalWx Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 Yeah especially for the lower elevations. I'm not convinced that Sunday River retains any better than Mansfield's northeast facing slopes at elevation. But that might be due to a higher snowpack to begin with. But I still think natural snow lingers on Mansfield longer than SR. ME without a doubt wins snow depth days most winters...VT takes the cake in number of pow days though. That might be impossible to figure out since Mansfield gets much more natural snow, but I still think ME wins in the overall snowpack retention, despite less snow. They are simply less prone to warm intrusions from the south. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skierinvermont Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 The thing about Maine vs VT is that Maine is a snowpack retention dream. Also I'd bet anything that the qpf ratios of Maine's snowfalls are much higher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastalWx Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 Also I'd bet anything that the qpf ratios of Maine's snowfalls are much higher It could be with synoptic snows. Mansfield though has such a puff bomb upslope component so that certainly helps them out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skierinvermont Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 That might be impossible to figure out since Mansfield gets much more natural snow, but I still think ME wins in the overall snowpack retention, despite less snow. They are simply less prone to warm intrusions from the south. I'd agree if we're talking about Saddleback/Sugarloaf and to the north.. not so sure about SR though. There isn't any high terrain to their south and their peak is 3000' which means in winter they stay above freezing longer after a cold front comes through and get higher temperatures in the spring. There is always a big increase in snowpack on most mountains as you hike up from 3,000 to 4,000+ feet. At 4,000+ feet you drop below freezing within a few hours or less of a front coming through. Also the low elevations around Saddleback/Sugarloaf have a huge advantage over the SR area it takes a long time to scour out the cold in those deep valleys and there is a lot of high terrain to the south. There were several times when Farmington was half snow half rain while Rangeley was mostly snow and then ending as freezing drizzle. When you look at the snowpack maps in winter the really high stuff is usually Saddleback/Sugarloaf north to the canadian border. SR is basically in the foothills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skierinvermont Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 It could be with synoptic snows. Mansfield though has such a puff bomb upslope component so that certainly helps them out. That's what I'm saying .. a much higher % of the snow in NW ME is synoptic thus the higher qpf content on average, less compaction Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powderfreak Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 That might be impossible to figure out since Mansfield gets much more natural snow, but I still think ME wins in the overall snowpack retention, despite less snow. They are simply less prone to warm intrusions from the south. Yeah I was more trying to say that I think the more noticeable retention is in the lower elevations...like surface CAD. I think up at elevation it may wash out a bit ad the atmosphere at 3000ft is more fluid but certainly the town of Bethel, ME (Sunday River) will retain snowpack much better than the town of Stowe. And yeah I agree with skier that most of the events in ME have higher QPF on average. I don't think it's much different than VT in synoptic events, but Sunday River isn't getting the 36-inch with 1" QPF fluff falls like that one we had last February. They get crushed in nor'easters while we smoke cirrus though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastalWx Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 That's what I'm saying .. a much higher % of the snow in NW ME is synoptic thus the higher qpf content on average, less compaction Oh yeah......gotcha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastalWx Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 Yeah I was more trying to say that I think the more noticeable retention is in the lower elevations...like surface CAD. I think up at elevation it may wash out a bit ad the atmosphere at 3000ft is more fluid but certainly the town of Bethel, ME (Sunday River) will retain snowpack much better than the town of Stowe. And yeah I agree with skier that most of the events in ME have higher QPF on average. I don't think it's much different than VT in synoptic events, but Sunday River isn't getting the 36-inch with 1" QPF fluff falls like that one we had last February. They get crushed in nor'easters while we smoke cirrus though. Yeah and I agree with skier to regarding SR. I guess what I was saying was that in events like a SWFE or lakes cutter that might cause areas near 3K around you to go above freezing...SR and especially points north probably are going to be below freezing for longer. That's all. But, we all know the pow pow upslope you get, which certainly offsets that. I've never skied in Maine before, so I don't want to comment on something I'm not completely familiar with...but I have an idea on their climo. And skier, why are you in Maine again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skierinvermont Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 Yeah and I agree with skier to regarding SR. I guess what I was saying was that in events like a SWFE or lakes cutter that might cause areas near 3K around you to go above freezing...SR and especially points north probably are going to be below freezing for longer. That's all. But, we all know the pow pow upslope you get, which certainly offsets that. I've never skied in Maine before, so I don't want to comment on something I'm not completely familiar with...but I have an idea on their climo. And skier, why are you in Maine again? Oh I just left my location as Rangeley while I was hiking the trail and still haven't changed it.. currently in CT.. don't know where I'll be this winter yet.. hopefully get a better idea this week. There are some events where a storm tracks through/near NH and Mansfield stays snow while NW ME mixes. But I'd agree it is more common to have SWFE where Mansfield mixes and NW ME does not. The bigger difference is probably the valleys than the mountain tops though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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