ag3 Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Average monthly temps for Central Park since 1962 (50 years) June: 1962-1971: 72.1 1972-1981: 70.8 1982-1991: 72.03 1992-2001: 72.01 2002-2011: 71.98 July: 1962-1971: 76.1 1972-1981: 77.1 1982-1991: 77.11 1992-2001: 76.56 2002-2011: 77.20 Yearly averages since 1982: 1982-1991: 55.55 1992-2001: 55.09 2002-2011: 55.43 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ag3 Posted June 28, 2012 Author Share Posted June 28, 2012 I will do August when I have time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forkyfork Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 it should be getting warmer each decade considering the warming climate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ag3 Posted June 28, 2012 Author Share Posted June 28, 2012 it should be getting warmer each decade considering the warming climate Proof? Please post the same exact stats for LGA and EWR. That would prove it for sure. I bet they both have similar ups and downs as Central Park. And I bet that the average temp differences betwen EWR and NYC and LGA and NYC have been the same and steady since 1982. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluewave Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 The number of 90 degree days has been decreasing at the park as the vegetation growth has increased. Ray (FAMARTIN) compiled the stats on the old forum and this is his data that I copied from the site: Here are the 1950-2007 average number of 90 degree days per month: SITE APR MAY JUN JUL AUG SEP TOT KLGA 0.1 0.8 3.6 6.5 4.2 1.1 16.2 KNYC 0.2 0.9 3.3 7.2 4.9 1.2 17.7 KEWR 0.2 1.5 5.2 9.3 6.7 1.6 24.6 Here are the 1960-2007 average number of 90 degree days per month: SITE APR MAY JUN JUL AUG SEP TOT KLGA 0.1 0.8 3.4 6.2 4.1 1.1 15.6 KNYC 0.2 1.0 3.2 7.1 4.9 1.3 17.8 KEWR 0.3 1.5 5.1 9.1 6.9 1.5 24.4 Here are the 1970-2007 average number of 90 degree days per month: SITE APR MAY JUN JUL AUG SEP TOT KLGA 0.1 0.8 3.4 6.6 4.6 1.0 16.4 KNYC 0.3 1.0 2.8 7.1 5.2 1.2 17.6 KEWR 0.3 1.7 5.0 9.6 7.2 1.5 25.3 Here are the 1980-2007 average number of 90 degree days per month: SITE APR MAY JUN JUL AUG SEP TOT KLGA 0.1 0.8 4.1 7.3 4.9 0.9 18.1 KNYC 0.2 1.0 3.1 7.5 5.1 1.0 18.0 KEWR 0.3 1.9 5.8 10.1 7.6 1.5 27.1 Here are the 1990-2007 average number of 90 degree days per month: SITE APR MAY JUN JUL AUG SEP TOT KLGA 0.1 1.0 4.3 7.8 5.4 0.6 19.2 KNYC 0.3 1.1 3.1 6.8 5.2 0.7 17.2 KEWR 0.4 2.1 5.8 10.2 7.7 1.4 27.6 Here are the 2000-2007 average number of 90 degree days per month: SITE APR MAY JUN JUL AUG SEP TOT KLGA 0.3 0.9 4.8 7.3 6.6 0.6 20.3 KNYC 0.4 1.0 2.3 4.0 5.4 0.6 13.6 KEWR 0.5 1.6 6.0 8.6 7.7 0.7 25.1 Here are the running 10 year average number of 90 degree days at the 3 sites plus ABE, BDR and PHL: BEGINNING YR 1998 1988 1978 1968 1958 ENDING YR 2007 1997 1987 1977 1967 KBDR 7.5 8.7 5.5 5.8 4.9 KNYC 14.5 21.0 17.6 16.9 18.3 KABE 15.7 15.6 15.2 12.0 14.7 KLGA 19.9 19.0 13.9 11.9 14.3 KEWR 25.6 30.9 22.8 20.5 23.6 KPHL 25.8 31.1 22.6 21.4 17.5 Here are the rankings, with 1 being least number of 90 degree days and 6 being most, of the 6 sites above: BEGINNING YR 1998 1988 1978 1968 1958 ENDING YR 2007 1997 1987 1977 1967 KBDR 1 1 1 1 1 KNYC 2 4 4 4 5 KABE 3 2 3 3 3 KLGA 4 3 2 2 2 KEWR 5 5 6 5 6 KPHL 6 6 5 6 4 The data speaks for itself... but obviously, NYC has experienced a noticeable decrease in 90 degree days while LGA has experienced a noticeable increase. BDR, ABE and EWR have been pretty steady in the rankings, while NYC has gone from 5 to 2 and LGA has gone from 2 to 4. Interestingly, PHL has gone from 4 to 6... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ag3 Posted June 28, 2012 Author Share Posted June 28, 2012 Average 90 degree temps by decades. Thanks Bluewave for the info. NYC: 1988: 21.0 1998: 14.5 2008: 13.3 08-11: 19 EWR: 1988: 31.1 1998: 25.6 2008: 25.1 While the 90+ degree days prove that Central Park's 90 degree days have been decreasing because of vegetation, the actual average yearly and monthly temps have not been affected. Bluewave: Do you have average temps for EWR for June and July since 1982? Would like to see the differences. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluewave Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Average 90 degree temps by decades. Thanks Bluewave for the info. NYC: 1988: 21.0 1998: 14.5 2008: 13.3 08-11: 19 EWR: 1988: 31.1 1998: 25.6 2008: 25.1 While the 90+ degree days prove that Central Park's 90 degree days have been decreasing because of vegetation, the actual average yearly and monthly temps have not been affected. Bluewave: Do you have average temps for EWR for June and July since 1982? Would like to see the differences. Thanks. I don't have those stats but added another Ray(FAMARTIN) set of 90 stats for Central Park and the other stations from the old forum. It was a good idea starting this thread so we can put all the Central Park discussion and data in one thread. YEAR NYC LGA EWR JFK 1964 23 17 26 8 1965 15 16 26 6 1966 35 25 33 14 1967 9 6 7 0 1968 17 15 23 12 1969 16 8 15 13 1970 22 22 22 13 1971 18 9 22 18 1972 15 4 21 8 1973 18 17 31 8 1974 17 13 18 10 1975 8 7 12 8 1976 15 10 15 5 1977 23 14 26 13 1978 11 4 16 12 1979 18 16 20 3 1980 32 22 27 11 1981 16 15 21 11 1982 11 6 12 4 1983 36 31 40 26 1984 10 9 22 13 1985 9 8 11 5 1986 11 9 22 8 1987 22 19 37 11 1988 32 26 43 14 1989 16 17 27 9 1990 12 10 26 6 1991 39 34 41 17 1992 9 9 22 6 1993 39 26 49 13 1994 19 22 39 7 1995 29 23 33 15 1996 3 6 9 4 1997 12 17 20 10 1998 8 11 21 5 1999 27 26 33 14 2000 7 12 16 6 2001 15 17 22 8 2002 32 35 41 21 2003 8 17 20 12 2004 2 7 13 1 2005 23 30 37 17 2006 8 22 27 12 2007 10 23 21 7 2008 4 7 6 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ag3 Posted June 28, 2012 Author Share Posted June 28, 2012 Decade averages...LGA is the only consistent station. EWR and NYC both have the same drop from 1978-1988 and 1988-1998 and both stations have remained constant from 1988-1998 to 1998-2008. NYC: 1988: 21.0 1998: 14.5 2008: 13.3 08-11: 19 EWR: 1988: 31.1 1998: 25.6 2008: 25.1 LGA: 1988: 19.0 1998: 19.9 2008: 20.3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ag3 Posted June 28, 2012 Author Share Posted June 28, 2012 I don't have those stats but I linked another Ray(FAMARTIN) set of 90 stats for Central Park and the other stations. http://www.americanw...19#entry1601019 Average monthly temps at LGA and EWR for June, July, August and yearly would show if there were major changrs in the past 10 years between the sites. Because Central Park hit 88-89 while LGA hit 90-92 a few extra times over the past 10 years, doesn't really prove anything. The average temps would show the disparities, if any. I wonder if LGA and EWR's June, July and yearly temps have been increasing or staying steady like Central Park has. If they have been increasing, then the case would be closed and Central Park would be proven to have a problem, over the past 10 years. If the numbers are steady, then Central Park is fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ag3 Posted June 28, 2012 Author Share Posted June 28, 2012 Both NYC and EWR saw a decrease after 1988 through 2008 for 90 degree days. And have both held steady from 1988-2008. So I dont see an issue here with 90+ degree days. LGA has remained constant with no increase either. Since 1978, NYC has always had a difference of 9-12 90 degree days with EWR and since 1988 always a 6-7 difference with LGA. It has remained constant. No change. NYC: 1988: 21.0 1998: 14.5 2008: 13.3 08-11: 19 EWR: 1988: 31.1 1998: 25.6 2008: 25.1 LGA: 1988: 19.0 1998: 19.9 2008: 20.3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ag3 Posted June 28, 2012 Author Share Posted June 28, 2012 Does anyone have EWR and LGA 90+ degree days for 2008, 2009, 2010 and 2011? Thanks in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluewave Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Average monthly temps at LGA and EWR for June, July, August and yearly would show if there were major changrs in the past 10 years between the sites. Because Central Park hit 88-89 while LGA hit 90-92 a few extra times over the past 10 years, doesn't really prove anything. The average temps would show the disparities, if any. I wonder if LGA and EWR's June, July and yearly temps have been increasing or staying steady like Central Park has. If they have been increasing, then the case would be closed and Central Park would be proven to have a problem, over the past 10 years. If the numbers are steady, then Central Park is fine. I don't have time now to crunch the numbers for NYC and LGA beyond the last 10 Julys. From July 2002 to 2011 NYC is +0.9 and LGA is +1.7 This is the link for anyone that wants to calculate the departures for earlier decades for comparison: http://www7.ncdc.noa...4296729F2A74F40 Also notice how LGA started to surpass NYC in 90 degree days around 1996 from my post #7. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncle W Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 since 2010 the annual average temperature is running way above previous decade average.. ten yr ave.temp....highest.....lowest. 1870's.........51.8..........53.6.........49.4 1880's.........51.6..........53.2.........49.3 1890's.........52.9..........54.6.........50.4 1900's.........53.1..........55.0.........50.7 1910's.........53.0..........55.0.........50.7 1920's.........53.1..........54.9.........51.2 1930's.........54.4..........55.8.........53.0 1940's.........54.3..........56.9.........51.9 1950's.........54.8..........57.0.........52.5 1960's.........54.2..........55.1.........53.0 1970's.........54.6..........56.1.........53.0 1980's.........55.1..........56.0.........54.0 1990's.........55.6..........57.2.........53.7 2000's.........55.1..........56.8.........53.4 2010's.........56.6..........56.7.........56.4 The 1870's and 80's had 20 years averaging 51.7... From the 1890's to the 1920's Central Park averaged 53.0 for the 40 years... From the 1930's to the 1970's CP averaged 54.5... The 1980's and 90's were warmer averaging 55.4... The last 30 years are a steady 55.3... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ag3 Posted June 28, 2012 Author Share Posted June 28, 2012 I don't have time now to crunch the numbers for NYC and LGA beyond the last 10 Julys. From July 2002 to 2011 NYC is +0.9 and LGA is +1.7 This is the link for anyone that wants to calculate the departures for earlier decades for comparison: http://www7.ncdc.noa...4296729F2A74F40 Also notice how LGA started to surpass NYC in 90 degree days around 1996 from my post #7. ???? NYC: 1988: 21.0 1998: 14.5 2008: 13.3 LGA: 1988: 19.0 1998: 19.9 2008: 20.3 The change started in 1978. From 1988 - 2008, LGA has averaged 5 to 7 more 90 degree days then Central Park. Which means the 30 year average we use today are fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ag3 Posted June 28, 2012 Author Share Posted June 28, 2012 since 2010 the annual average temperature is running way above previous decade average.. ten yr ave.temp....highest.....lowest. 1870's.........51.8..........53.6.........49.4 1880's.........51.6..........53.2.........49.3 1890's.........52.9..........54.6.........50.4 1900's.........53.1..........55.0.........50.7 1910's.........53.0..........55.0.........50.7 1920's.........53.1..........54.9.........51.2 1930's.........54.4..........55.8.........53.0 1940's.........54.3..........56.9.........51.9 1950's.........54.8..........57.0.........52.5 1960's.........54.2..........55.1.........53.0 1970's.........54.6..........56.1.........53.0 1980's.........55.1..........56.0.........54.0 1990's.........55.6..........57.2.........53.7 2000's.........55.1..........56.8.........53.4 2010's.........56.6..........56.7.........56.4 The 1870's and 80's had 20 years averaging 51.7... From the 1890's to the 1920's Central Park averaged 53.0 for the 40 years... From the 1930's to the 1970's CP averaged 54.5... The 1980's and 90's were warmer averaging 55.4... The last 30 years are a steady 55.3... That's why you have to use a bigger spread and not a 2 year short cycle. 2002-2011 is on par: 10 year annual averages for the 30 year cycle used in today's data (Central Park): 1982-1991: 55.55 1992-2001: 55.09 2002-2011: 55.43 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncle W Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 That's why you have to use a bigger spread and not a 2 year short cycle. 2002-2011 is on par: 10 year annual averages for the 30 year cycle used in today's data (Central Park): 1982-1991: 55.55 1992-2001: 55.09 2002-2011: 55.43 three year short cycle counting this year which could turn out the warmest on record... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluewave Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 ???? NYC: 1988: 21.0 1998: 14.5 2008: 13.3 LGA: 1988: 19.0 1998: 19.9 2008: 20.3 The change started in 1978. From 1988 - 2008, LGA has averaged 5 to 7 more 90 degree days then Central Park. Which means the 30 year average we use today are fine. Go back and take a look at the stats that I posted from Ray. LGA started to regularly have more 90 degrees a year around 1996. Prior to that, Central Park almost usually had more 90 degree days a year. YEAR NYC LGA EWR JFK 1964 23 17 26 8 1965 15 16 26 6 1966 35 25 33 14 1967 9 6 7 0 1968 17 15 23 12 1969 16 8 15 13 1970 22 22 22 13 1971 18 9 22 18 1972 15 4 21 8 1973 18 17 31 8 1974 17 13 18 10 1975 8 7 12 8 1976 15 10 15 5 1977 23 14 26 13 1978 11 4 16 12 1979 18 16 20 3 1980 32 22 27 11 1981 16 15 21 11 1982 11 6 12 4 1983 36 31 40 26 1984 10 9 22 13 1985 9 8 11 5 1986 11 9 22 8 1987 22 19 37 11 1988 32 26 43 14 1989 16 17 27 9 1990 12 10 26 6 1991 39 34 41 17 1992 9 9 22 6 1993 39 26 49 13 1994 19 22 39 7 1995 29 23 33 15 1996 3 6 9 4 1997 12 17 20 10 1998 8 11 21 5 1999 27 26 33 14 2000 7 12 16 6 2001 15 17 22 8 2002 32 35 41 21 2003 8 17 20 12 2004 2 7 13 1 2005 23 30 37 17 2006 8 22 27 12 2007 10 23 21 7 2008 4 7 6 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncle W Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 July........temp......max....min...ave max/min.................................. 1870's.....75.7.......na.....na.....na.....na 1880's.....74.6.......99.....54.....92.6.....59.2 1890's.....74.7.....100.....55.....95.1.....58.1 1900's.....76.1.....100.....56.....94.4.....60.0 1910's.....75.4.....100.....56.....96.1.....59.2 1920's.....74.7.....100.....54.....94.7.....57.5 1930's.....76.7.....106.....54.....97.9.....59.2 1940's.....76.7.....102.....52.....96.0.....58.6 1950's.....77.1.....101.....57.....96.3.....60.5 1960's.....76.0.....103.....54.....96.1.....59.3 1970's.....76.8.....104.....53.....95.0.....58.7 1980's.....77.4.....102.....53.....96.5.....59.2 1990's.....77.5.....102.....57.....97.1.....61.1 2000's.....75.6.......97.....56.....92.6.....60.5 2010's.....80.8.....104.....61...103.5.....62.5 1870/1880- 2009 ave 76.1.....106.....52.....95.4.....59.3 1980- 2009 ave 76.8.....102.....53.....95.4.....60.3 the 2000's had a few cool July's...2000, 2004 and 2009 were quite cool...the last two were very hot... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ag3 Posted June 28, 2012 Author Share Posted June 28, 2012 three year short cycle counting this year which could turn out the warmest on record... Thank you. It didn't affect the 2002-2011 decadal average. On par with the decadal average since 1982. And 2002-2011 is on par and it includes 2010 and 2011 (2 of the warmest on record). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluewave Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 I don't have time now to crunch the numbers for NYC and LGA beyond the last 10 Julys. From July 2002 to 2011 NYC is +0.9 and LGA is +1.7 This is the link for anyone that wants to calculate the departures for earlier decades for comparison: http://www7.ncdc.noa...4296729F2A74F40 Also notice how LGA started to surpass NYC in 90 degree days around 1996 from my post #7. Even though Central Park was recording a higher of number of 90 degrees relative to LGA back then, LGA still had a higher July average departure between 1986-1995 like from 2002-2011. NYC... +0.8 LGA.. +1.6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ag3 Posted June 28, 2012 Author Share Posted June 28, 2012 Even though Central Park was recording a higher of number of 90 degrees relative to LGA back then, LGA is still about the same amount warmer in July than during 1986-1995. NYC... +0.8 LGA.. +1.6 However you slice it, from 1989-2008, there is no noticeable change in average of 90+ days between LGA or NYC; And in fact KEWR as well, that would skew numbers: NYC: 1989-1998: 14.5 1999-2008: 13.3 LGA: 1989-1998: 19.9 1999-2008: 20.3 EWR: 1989-1998: 25.6 1999-2008: 25.1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluewave Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 However you slice it, from 1989-2008, there is no noticeable change in average of 90+ days between LGA or NYC; And in fact KEWR as well, that would skew numbers: NYC: 1989-1998: 14.5 1999-2008: 13.3 LGA: 1989-1998: 19.9 1999-2008: 20.3 EWR: 1989-1998: 25.6 1999-2008: 25.1 So why did LGA go up while NYC went down? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ag3 Posted June 28, 2012 Author Share Posted June 28, 2012 If I can find 2009, 2010 + 2011 for LGA and EWR, we can see if there has been a disparity in these years. I have the Central Park #. But I need the LGA and EWR #. Central Park averaged 19, 90+ days from 2009-2011 EWR: LGA: Dont know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ag3 Posted June 28, 2012 Author Share Posted June 28, 2012 So why did LGA go up while NYC went down? EWR went down also. You are talking minimal changes that dont affect 30 year averages. The average temps in June and July for Central Park have also remained constant, as I posted above. Here it is again (since 1962): June: 1962-1971: 72.1 1972-1981: 70.8 1982-1991: 72.03 1992-2001: 72.01 2002-2011: 71.98 July: 1962-1971: 76.1 1972-1981: 77.1 1982-1991: 77.11 1992-2001: 76.56 2002-2011: 77.20 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluewave Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 EWR went down also. You are talking minimal changes that dont affect 30 year averages. The average temps in June and July for Central Park have also remained constant, as I posted above. Here it is again (since 1962): June: 1962-1971: 72.1 1972-1981: 70.8 1982-1991: 72.03 1992-2001: 72.01 2002-2011: 71.98 July: 1962-1971: 76.1 1972-1981: 77.1 1982-1991: 77.11 1992-2001: 76.56 2002-2011: 77.20 I am talking about 90 degree days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncle W Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Central Park went AOS in 1996 and that's when the differences started... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ag3 Posted June 28, 2012 Author Share Posted June 28, 2012 I am talking about 90 degree days. No consequential difference since 1989 between LGA, NYC and EWR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ag3 Posted June 28, 2012 Author Share Posted June 28, 2012 Central Park went AOS in 1996 and that's when the differences started... Can you compile 90+ degree days from 1996-2011 for NYC, LGA and EWR? I would do it but don't know where to look for LGA and EWR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isotherm Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 I think it's difficult to argue that Central Park's vegetation has not had any impact on temps. 90F days in NYC have clearly decreased in the past decade. Yearly temps haven't seen much change as it's probably a situation where KNYC's often 88-89 and the other stations are in the low 90s. In torch scenarios like the next few days, NYC will easily top 90. It's the days where 1-3F lower makes a significant difference in the 90F tally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncle W Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 the summer stats... Summer months...June/July/Aug...90 + days are the annual total... Three month period from 6/1 - 8/31 decade...ave temp/precip...90+days100+ 1870's.....73.2.....13.75".....101.....0..... 1880's.....72.4.....11.88".......81.....1..... 1890's.....73.3.....11.18".....138.....1..... 1900's.....73.3.....12.87".....101.....2..... 1910's.....72.7.....11.58".....115.....3..... 1920's.....72.6.....12.98".....128.....2..... 1930's.....74.6.....12.40".....189.....8..... 1940's.....74.2.....11.86".....202.....8..... 1950's.....74.4.......9.86".....175...12..... 1960's.....74.2.....10.54".....181.....4..... 1970's.....74.6.....12.61".....183.....3..... 1980's.....75.0.....13.03".....195.....2..... 1990's.....75.0.....11.90".....197.....8..... 2000's.....74.3.....15.66".....123.....1..... 2010's.....76.9.....17.09".......60.....4 1870- 2009 ave 73.8.....12.29".....149.....4..... 1980- 2009 ave 74.8.....13.53".....172.....4..... the 1940's had more 90+ days than any decade on record...the 2000's had the least amount since the 1910's... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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