mappy Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 That just isn't as sexy of a term Fair enough - but its really silly, regardless of "once in a generation = 20 years" (thanks Trixie) Just another thing to make the whole situation more over dramatic than it needs to be, much like CWG looking to name it. SMH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted July 2, 2012 Author Share Posted July 2, 2012 That was about 2 weeks after I moved to MD and I was living in MontCo at the time, so I couldn't really say. I found this, "By definition, if the wind damage swath extends more than 240 miles (about 400 kilometers) and includes wind gusts of at least 58 mph (93 km/h) or greater along most of its length, then the event may be classified as a derecho." june 08 was probably right on the cusp. i think technically it had wind reports along a long enough track to call it a derecho. but in north/south coverage it was much smaller and it maxed out east of the Apps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted July 2, 2012 Author Share Posted July 2, 2012 im submitting the name "Friday Night Blow Job" for the storm event. thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mappy Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 im submitting the name "Friday Night Blow Job" for the storm event. thanks. make sure you include the morning Slight Risk image for additional support Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gymengineer Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Fair enough - but its really silly, regardless of "once in a generation = 20 years" (thanks Trixie) Just another thing to make the whole situation more over dramatic than it needs to be, much like CWG looking to name it. SMH I suppose I don't post enough on here, so people don't know what I'm like. Trust me-- I wasn't trying to be dramatic. It's not about drama, it's about realizing how amazing from a weather stats-perspective the event actually was. Like not about doom or headlines- we had one event go by that managed to give most of the population a taste of *real* severe thunderstrom criteria. That's awe-inspiring. ETA: especially since the other biggies like Isabel, etc., really were lame in the wind department for much of the region. Isabel couldn't even get a 50 mph gust to IAD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mappy Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 I suppose I don't post enough on here, so people don't know what I'm like. Trust me-- I wasn't trying to be dramatic. It's not about drama, it's about realizing how amazing from a weather stats-perspective the event actually was. Like not about doom or headlines- we had one event go by that managed to give most of the population a taste of *real* severe thunderstrom criteria. That's awe-inspiring. So all previous severe thunderstorms that hit criteria weren't real? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted July 2, 2012 Author Share Posted July 2, 2012 i dont know enough about derecho history but the one people have pointed to is the more trees down derecho of 1980. that track looked similar tho from what i see it wasnt as bad locally? while we'll surely see another derecho before terribly long this one is likely going to be hard to top for decades--or it should be statistically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catoctin wx Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 I suppose I don't post enough on here, so people don't know what I'm like. Trust me-- I wasn't trying to be dramatic. It's not about drama, it's about realizing how amazing from a weather stats-perspective the event actually was. Like not about doom or headlines- we had one event go by that managed to give most of the population a taste of *real* severe thunderstrom criteria. That's awe-inspiring. I wasn't accusing you of being dramatic, sorry if it read that way. My point was that the terms "once-in-a-generation event" and "once-in-20-year event" mean the same thing, but one just sounds much more dramatic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scuddz Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 im submitting the name "Friday Night Blow Job" for the storm event. thanks. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gymengineer Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 So all previous severe thunderstorms that hit criteria weren't real? ? You're still focused on what an individual experiences. I'm focused on overall impact and recorded data. Is it ok that we just don't agree? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mappy Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 I think this is one of those "where you stand on an issue depends on where you sit." for me it was easily the 2nd worst thunderstorm I have ever been through, including one with tornado on the ground visible out my kitchen window in Minneapolis (which wasn't the worst), not just in terms of the damage, but in terms of the ferocity and duration of the peak of the storm. I can understand that - I'm not saying this event wasn't serious - obviously it was. I guess to me, once in a generation seems a little exaggerated. Then again, I didn't get the actual derecho portion of the storms Friday night, so maybe I'm just being biased. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2O Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 it's the most widespread damage I've seen in over 20 years in this area. in terms of damage it's way worse than June 4, 2008. June 5, 1987 or 1988? (June 17?) was significant right in DC from what I remember from my then boss in Boston's account of being down here in it, but I am not sure how widespread that was. this was the most violent thunderstorm I can remember here, and it compares with all time worst storm I remember as a kid in the 1970s in CT where we had a similar situation--heavy rain, violent winds, tremendous c-g lightning, and extensive damage. 87/88(even I can't remember exactly) was the scariest one I can remember. This one was bad but I wasn't nearly as scared. The damage from that one was worse from an IMBY recollection and for the area. DC and MoCo were hit hard as well. Increase in populations will always set new records as far as number of people affected. Coming out and naming stuff or using cliches to describe an event always makes me laugh. This was a significant wind storm. If the next storm system to hit knocks out power to just one more person than this one will that make it "the mother of all generational storms"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted July 2, 2012 Author Share Posted July 2, 2012 +1 On second thought we should probably put "The Great" up front. This was no ordinary Friday night fling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scuddz Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 On second thought we should probably put "The Great" up front. This was no ordinary Friday night fling. indeed. This one knew what she was doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mappy Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 ? You're still focused on what an individual experiences. I'm focused on overall impact and recorded data. Is it ok that we just don't agree? Sure, of course. But saying things like this was a "real" severe thunderstorm is being over dramatic. That is like saying Hurricane Hazel was the only "real" hurricane to hit Maryland, when we know that isn't true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gymengineer Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 And again, I used the term first in a post to say "give the power companies a break." What they have to clean up from is not any sort of once-a-year or once-every- five year type of thunderstorm, even compared the summer 2010 ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted July 2, 2012 Author Share Posted July 2, 2012 I actually saw less damage personally than in 08 though I'm not sure I looked as hard. Around here pretty much only my street had trees down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gymengineer Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Sure, of course. But saying things like this was a "real" severe thunderstorm is being over dramatic. That is like saying Hurricane Hazel was the only "real" hurricane to hit Maryland, when we know that isn't true. No no, you completely misunderstood me. I meant actual STW-criteria wind gusts-- real as in "verifies a ST warning at their own location" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avdave Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 out here it's the city that cleans up the debris. we've already been told to just leave all of the downed branches curbside and that the city will get to them when it can. neither the city nor the fire department here can handle the hundreds of trees down so we have assistance in from other states to take down trees and clear away that debris. thats why the governor should declare a state of emergency and have the natl guard out there cleaning things up then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mappy Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 No no, you completely misunderstood me. I meant actual STW-criteria wind gusts-- real as in "verifies a ST warning at their own location" No, no I didn't. I understood you completely. It was the first real taste people got of a severe thunderstorm criteria... Forget all those other times severe thunderstorm warnings came true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeWinds Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 some interesting links on historical derechos in the region... http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/weather/weather-blog/bal-wx-derecho-storms-md-20120702,0,5171582.story http://www.spc.noaa.gov/misc/AbtDerechos/casepages/jul4-51980page.htm Sounds like 1980 was a year with several derechos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2O Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 And again, I used the term first in a post to say "give the power companies a break." What they have to clean up from is not any sort of once-a-year or once-every- five year type of thunderstorm, even compared the summer 2010 ones. I'm not criticizing the power companies. I know they have their hands full on this one. What I get put on tilt about it John Q Public not understanding how significant this event was and thinking it should all get fixed in 12 hours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avdave Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 And again, I used the term first in a post to say "give the power companies a break." What they have to clean up from is not any sort of once-a-year or once-every- five year type of thunderstorm, even compared the summer 2010 ones. And yet I have not seen a National Guard truck anywhere to be seen to help out in the state of emergency. Im not saying that is the power companies fault either. Im just sayin. The guard should be out there cleaning up debris while the utility companies can focus on substations and wires. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avdave Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 the governor of WV has declared a state of emergency. but the National Guard is needed in the rural areas where people are trapped by downed wires and trees. out there is 100x worse than here in town. I would think they have a priority type of system. Major roads, cities that lead to govt/hospitals, etc then the lesser used roads and smaller towns, similar like they do when removing snow after a large snowstorm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris87 Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 And yet I have not seen a National Guard truck anywhere to be seen to help out in the state of emergency. Im not saying that is the power companies fault either. Im just sayin. The guard should be out there cleaning up debris while the utility companies can focus on substations and wires. true, but it is a long trip from Afghanistan...or where ever else we send them these days... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avdave Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 true, but it is a long trip from Afghanistan...or where ever else we send them these days... Ok lets not get carried away Chris. lol. We have plenty of Natl Guard here at home too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris87 Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Ok lets not get carried away Chris. lol. We have plenty of Natl Guard here at home too. yes i know it was a joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted July 2, 2012 Author Share Posted July 2, 2012 I think one conundrum here with regard to earlier lead is what if it did not happen. The signs were clearly there days ahead that someone from our area to SNE would face the potential of a rare event given the pattern and the unusual EML being transported into the area. It is of course easier to say "why did people F up" since it happened. But, I'm sure there are plenty of cases where we saw a similar look and nothing occurred. NWS zone forecasts are just not made to handle this type of event. "Mostly sunny, with a slight chance of storms. Oh, those storms may end up being a giant squall line if it happens but we don't know if it will because we don't necessarily see a trigger." BUT, NWS et al are all into social media etc now. There's no reason they can't use those mediums beforehand to say, hey everyone, just a heads up, this is a volatile pattern. If we end up in a situation where there is a large squall line coming you need to pay extra attention. We actually had a side discussion among several of us with CWG on Thursday night. We did not include a "storm threat index" number. I was nervous about that, but even as someone who saw the potential I was not able to convince myself based on model output that we'd see what we saw when we did. So... I really don't know the answer, but that doesnt mean there is no problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sauss06 Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 And yet I have not seen a National Guard truck anywhere to be seen to help out in the state of emergency. Im not saying that is the power companies fault either. Im just sayin. The guard should be out there cleaning up debris while the utility companies can focus on substations and wires. i agree Dave. Everyone should have a role and stay within that role. The national gaurd should come and fill in the holes. With what Trix said, doesn't sound like there is enough bodies to help out. Seems like they prioritized and sent they help to the country where its worse. I have been in situations like this, when you don't have enough manpower to handle it. helpless feeling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gymengineer Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 No, no I didn't. I understood you completely. It was the first real taste people got of a severe thunderstorm criteria... Forget all those other times severe thunderstorm warnings came true Wait so it is back to the first disagreement. You see individual, I see region. Would you be ok calling Agnes a benchmark rainstorm for the area even though you may have seen more rain and flooding in your own town several times since? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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