Meteorology as a Major

[Disc]

Once again, I greatly appreciate all the replies as they are helping me get an even better idea of what to expect and do in the upcoming years. Thank-you!

[LocoAko]

I don't have much more to add, but congrats on graduating and good luck in the future! Just don't be hesitant to try to seek out any opportunity possible.

[Hoar_Frost]

I just graduated last month with a B.S in meteorology (minor in applied mathematics) from Northern Illinois University and will be going on to graduate school at Penn State this fall on an AMS fellowship. Many excellent points have been made in previous posts. There is one theme: the meteorology field, particularly that part of it concerning operational forecasting, is fiercely competitive at this time and will probably continue to be so going forward. Therefore, it behooves the meteorology student to do whatever he can to stand out and be the best (or nearly the best). There is no room in this field for those who aim for mediocrity or even mere goodness. Excellence must be the goal. Nonetheless, I will caution you that even excellence provides no guarantee these days.

There are a few things that one can do to be an excellent meteorology undergraduate.

First, form collegial relationships. Meteorology is a small field. Consider this thread: without even trying, I have met four or five of the people who posted on this thread. I happen to know that these four or five have met or know pretty well a number of other people on this thread. So, if you are incompetent, people will know it. Conversely, if you are excellent, people will know (or can learn) that just as readily. How do you form these collegial relationships? Active participation on this forum is one way. Joining your school's and/or your local AMS chapter is another. Talk to your professors; get involved in their research if they will allow. Apply to programs like NOAA's Hollings or an REU-type thing; I did an REU in Norman, Oklahoma, one summer, and I met about 25 other students and a healthy handful of professors (at OU) and researchers. Attend professional conferences. Take every opportunity to get to know people, particularly people who can provide a reference (directly or indirectly) or employment.

Learn a sideline. As an undergraduate, learning a sideline usually means pursuing a minor or a second major. If I had a do-over, I think computer science (with a focus on advanced high-level programming) is a first choice. Being adept at programming, even just being proficient at the basics of one language (start with FORTRAN), suggests that you can solve problems of your own choosing, which is an important asset in research and development. It is also a highly transferable skill for use in a career plan B or C, if necessary. A close second would be mathematics. But a focus on advanced statistics would be most apt. Statistics is important in research, which is the basis of graduate school and certain BS-degree-worthy positions in the private sector. GIS might be a third choice. I rank GIS a little lower because many schools do not offer it; when it is offered, as it was at mine, I feel like it might be becoming a dime-a-dozen sort of skill. Too many students are pursuing it. It might be different if you are good at it. Keep in mind also that you can learn programming languages on your own fairly easily with a bit of discipline. For instance, this summer, I am teaching myself FORTRAN.

Perform research as an undergrad. These sorts of opportunities are becoming more common. Sometimes, you can participate in a professor's research. Often, universities have formalized programs (e.g., undergraduate research day, senior thesis). Perhaps you can do it as part of an internship. Be sure to write up this research, present it in a conference, and/or publish it if you have the opportunity.

Be active, enterprising, and excellent! Good luck. Keep in mind that loving what you do will go a long, long way.

[weatherMA]

Wanted to bump this thread, a lot of great info in this thread. Reading this thread makes me wish that more TRUE information was given to meteorology majors before they began their degree. I was very well aware of this thread before I started my freshman year this year at Plymouth State, and I'm glad I knew the importance of getting good grades in this major before starting. I've talked to one person in particular that thought this major had a starting salary for meteorologists was 80K...and just overall had no idea of the competitiveness of the market.

As I come towards the end of the first semester here, I'm trying to look into my options as to what I would like to do to add to my degree. I automatically get a math minor here, and that doesn't exactly make you stand out...so I'm trying to look into other options. Computer science, math major along with meteorology...I don't know. I also don't know if I could handle a math major with some of the advanced met courses, as I have all As and A-'s now but that obviously may not a good indication of future more advanced courses. So, anyway, I know nothing has probably changed since June when this thread was started, but I thought it was a valuable resource anyway, and any new advice or input would be appreciated.

[blizzard1024]

As a MET and one who is very lucky to have a 20+ year long career and still going in meteorology, I understand your passion

for meteorology. But the reality at this moment and probably at least for the next 4 years or so... is there will be virtually no

opportunity in the NWS. NWS is faced w/ serious budget difficulties and they are looking at reorganizing again

with an emphasis on reducing labor costs which is unsustainable according to NOAA officials. Congress is embarking

on a study on how to be more efficient in the NWS. Whatever comes of this, will determine the future I imagine. BUT,

it probably likely won't lead to an increase in NWS jobs. NWS already gets hundreds of applicants for intern GS5 entry level

positions. I know people that are tremendously accomplished out of college but have no experience and don't get in.

The private sector is the private sector. You never know. Right now, not so good...but this could change.

I would have a plan B if you go into meteorology. Like

[blizzard1024]

As a MET and one who is very lucky to have a 20+ year long career and still going in meteorology, I understand your passion

for meteorology. But the reality at this moment and probably at least for the next 4 years or so... is there will be virtually no

opportunity in the NWS. NWS is faced w/ serious budget difficulties and they are looking at reorganizing again

with an emphasis on reducing labor costs which is unsustainable according to NOAA officials. Congress is embarking

on a study on how to be more efficient in the NWS. Whatever comes of this, will determine the future I imagine. BUT,

it probably likely won't lead to an increase in NWS jobs. NWS already gets hundreds of applicants for intern GS5 entry level

positions. I know people that are tremendously accomplished out of college but have no experience and don't get in.

The private sector is the private sector. You never know. Right now, not so good...but this could change.

I would have a plan B if you go into meteorology. Like education, or some other field. Not sure. Have a fall back field.

Or else you could end up like a lot of my younger friends who are making 20sK per year no job security, long hours

and can't even pay the interest on their student loans with no hope in sight for now. I know dean's list students

from major universities in meteorology like this. hard work did not pay off for these persons. Need a fall back plan. then go for it...

but don't expect too much.

[wxmanmitch]

Wanted to bump this thread, a lot of great info in this thread. Reading this thread makes me wish that more TRUE information was given to meteorology majors before they began their degree. I was very well aware of this thread before I started my freshman year this year at Plymouth State, and I'm glad I knew the importance of getting good grades in this major before starting. I've talked to one person in particular that thought this major had a starting salary for meteorologists was 80K...and just overall had no idea of the competitiveness of the market.

As I come towards the end of the first semester here, I'm trying to look into my options as to what I would like to do to add to my degree. I automatically get a math minor here, and that doesn't exactly make you stand out...so I'm trying to look into other options. Computer science, math major along with meteorology...I don't know. I also don't know if I could handle a math major with some of the advanced met courses, as I have all As and A-'s now but that obviously may not a good indication of future more advanced courses. So, anyway, I know nothing has probably changed since June when this thread was started, but I thought it was a valuable resource anyway, and any new advice or input would be appreciated.

If I were you, I'd go with computer science as a second major if you can. I was one of those people who did not have a contingency plan while majoring in meteorology and have now put myself into a difficult position where I'm trying to get the skills needed for another line of work where opportunities should be a bit more plentiful than meteorology.

As others have said, solid programming skills are becoming more sought after in the meteorology field so a CS major or minor would likely be beneficial to your chances. In addition, and perhaps more importantly, having some CS background will make yourself more marketable in other fields like software engineering. From what I've heard, software engineering and computer programming/IT jobs are pretty lucrative right now.

Even if it takes another year of college to do a double major in something like math or CS, I would recommend doing it if you can. This will increase your chances of landing a job in met or elsewhere after graduation. Freshmen year is not too early to be thinking about such matters. Good luck to you and have fun up in Plymouth. I know I did.

[thunderman]

Community college is a great route (it's what I did as well).

As for classes that I would recommend trying to knock out:

1) calc 1,2,3

2) stats

3) physics with calc (without calc is good too if that's all your community college has. That was my situation and it wtill helped me with calc based physics)

4) chem

5) all the other junk (english, history, econ, etc) that you need for gen eds

Classes that I took that I would highly recommend. Some may be required:

1)Space weather

2) Atmospheric Chemistry

3) Remote Sensing (this is satellite theory ... how they work, basics of how algorithms are written, etc)

4) Statistical Meteorology

5) FORTRAN and IDL

6) Practicums/Internships

[Rick G]

As a Comp Sic Prof (adjunct), take C# or C++. ALso learn some of the scripting languages, Perl, Python and Java (java can be a programing language like C. also learn how to solve problems not with programing but on paper. Being able to solve a problem before you write one line of code is truely a great skill.

[Disc]

Community college is a great route (it's what I did as well).

As for classes that I would recommend trying to knock out:

1) calc 1,2,3

2) stats

3) physics with calc (without calc is good too if that's all your community college has. That was my situation and it wtill helped me with calc based physics)

4) chem

5) all the other junk (english, history, econ, etc) that you need for gen eds

Classes that I took that I would highly recommend. Some may be required:

1)Space weather

2) Atmospheric Chemistry

3) Remote Sensing (this is satellite theory ... how they work, basics of how algorithms are written, etc)

4) Statistical Meteorology

5) FORTRAN and IDL

6) Practicums/Internships

I'm actually at a local community college at the moment taking a bunch of the general classes at the moment and I haven't had to pay a cent out of pocket for my classes. (Free college is good college. No loans!) I'm getting a two year Science degree with mathematics specialization at the community college and I hope to transfer to Virginia Tech and get started with their meteorology program there. They have great tie-ins with the NWS in Blacksburg and I'll hopefully have a good chance to intern at some point.

Computer science would suit me just fine as a secondary option, or have a meteorology degree with some sort of minor in computer science. Thanks for all the insight and information being posted here from all the mets. Greatly appreciated.

[weatherMA]

If I were you, I'd go with computer science as a second major if you can. I was one of those people who did not have a contingency plan while majoring in meteorology and have now put myself into a difficult position where I'm trying to get the skills needed for another line of work where opportunities should be a bit more plentiful than meteorology.

As others have said, solid programming skills are becoming more sought after in the meteorology field so a CS major or minor would likely be beneficial to your chances. In addition, and perhaps more importantly, having some CS background will make yourself more marketable in other fields like software engineering. From what I've heard, software engineering and computer programming/IT jobs are pretty lucrative right now.

Even if it takes another year of college to do a double major in something like math or CS, I would recommend doing it if you can. This will increase your chances of landing a job in met or elsewhere after graduation. Freshmen year is not too early to be thinking about such matters. Good luck to you and have fun up in Plymouth. I know I did.

Thanks for all your input. I appreciate all the advice I can get. I'm lucky to be on this forum and to be looking into this as others in the major I have talked to have no idea what it's like. I will look into what it will take to at least minor in computer science. Since math automatically comes as a minor, I would think the only way to improve that side of it would be to major in math as well...but, I would think a minor in computer science would be a better start, and maybe if I enjoy it or think it is necessary could do more then a minor with it.

A lot to look into...but I'm glad I'm starting freshman year for sure!

[OKpowdah]

Solution: just stay in school for as long as you can ... masters ... PhD ... Post Doc ... it's the way to go

[Nittany88]

I'd go Fortran before C++. I don't think I've touched a C++ program since I took C++ as an undergrad over a decade ago. I encountered C and Fortran on a regular basis in grad school. But basically, as other have touched upon...any advanced computing is a good idea. Fortran, Perl, Matlab, shell scripts, etc.

As far as computer programming, it's all Python and Java.

[Thunder Road]

As far as computer programming, it's all Python and Java.

But knowing any language is better than knowing none at all. The basics of coding (if/else, loops, arrays, methods/subroutines) are rather similar in most languages, and if you know one well, you can probably adapt to the other with a day's training, for simple stuff anyway.

[ohleary]

Thanks for all your input. I appreciate all the advice I can get. I'm lucky to be on this forum and to be looking into this as others in the major I have talked to have no idea what it's like. I will look into what it will take to at least minor in computer science. Since math automatically comes as a minor, I would think the only way to improve that side of it would be to major in math as well...but, I would think a minor in computer science would be a better start, and maybe if I enjoy it or think it is necessary could do more then a minor with it.

A lot to look into...but I'm glad I'm starting freshman year for sure!

I agree...I don't see what leg up you'd get from a math major...but a double minor in math and comp sci might set you apart. It would definitely help if you go on to an advanced degree, having the programming knowledge as well.

[ApacheTrout]

This thread contains some absolutely stellar advice from experienced mets. I'm an aquatic ecologist with 13 years of consulting work and think I've gleaned a nugget or two of useful information that I'd like to pass on to you.

First, take as many writing courses as you can. Your ability to write and communicate ideas clearly and concisely will make you stand out above everyone else. You'll certainly gain experience with technical writing along the way, but make the effort to take classes in both technical and creative writing. I've seen too many scientists and engineers hobbled by their inability to write effectively.

Second, hydrology is a great minor or second major. Climate change is influencing rainfall patterns, and in the heavily populated New England states, this means increased frequency of flood-inducing precipitation events that impact infrastructure. This means that there's an increasing demand from cities and states to understand (i.e. model) these impacts to reduce damages in the future.

Good luck with your classes!

[isohume]

But knowing any language is better than knowing none at all. The basics of coding (if/else, loops, arrays, methods/subroutines) are rather similar in most languages, and if you know one well, you can probably adapt to the other with a day's training, for simple stuff anyway.

This is true, especially for scripting. But for database management, server and software maintenance etc, the languages used and needed by the NWS are Linux, Java, and Python. Mets are really expected to have strong IT type skills these days, at least in the NWS.

But, like has been said a thousand times in this thread already, work experience will give you the edge in gaining employment more than anything else.

[#NoPoles]

some great advice in this thread...if you are a highschool student contemplating the major, go ahead and do a job search to see what types of jobs are highering for people with met degrees...there are some traditional met jobs but it's a very competitve job market...if you get a feel for what types of jobs are readily available then you will know how to pick and choose your classes to make yourself extrememly marketable upon graduation...

[arizonasooner]

I got my BS in Meteorology some 30 years ago... Didn't really care for the opportunities then, so I went back and got an MS in Chemical Engineering, which has served me pretty well. Not as interesting as meteorology, but I do get to travel to interesting places for work and I have a decent salary, plus my office is in my house currently!

Bottom line - do the core technical/engineering coursework and let the chips fall where they may.

[das]

This is true, especially for scripting. But for database management, server and software maintenance etc, the languages used and needed by the NWS are Linux, Java, and Python. Mets are really expected to have strong IT type skills these days, at least in the NWS.

But, like has been said a thousand times in this thread already, work experience will give you the edge in gaining employment more than anything else.

Concur re: the InfoTech skills. It is absolutely the same outside of NWS. Very much the case in private and research meteorology. Appears to be less important in Met academia but that may be a poor assessment on my part.

[Ed Lizard]

Just as an aside, most of the first 2 years of the met program seem to match the first two years of engineering, if the job market still looks bad, you can switch as a junior and graduate almost on time. If you were good in the programming classes, electrical engineering. Mechanical and civil give the most versatility, petroleum pays best but is cyclical, and oil companies hire mechanical and chemical engineers anyway when they are hiring.

Someone like Tim Marshall gets to work in both fields at once.

Edit to add: Marshall has graduate degrees in both met and civil engineering. But a good science based undegrad degree cuts years off the time it takes to earn an MS in engineering if one goes the BS Met than gard school route.

[LocoAko]

Just as an aside, most of the first 2 years of the met program seem to match the first two years of engineering, if the job market still looks bad, you can switch as a junior and graduate almost on time. If you were good in the programming classes, electrical engineering. Mechanical and civil give the most versatility, petroleum pays best but is cyclical, and oil companies hire mechanical and chemical engineers anyway when they are hiring.

Someone like Tim Marshall gets to work in both fields at once.

Edit to add: Marshall has graduate degrees in both met and civil engineering. But a good science based undegrad degree cuts years off the time it takes to earn an MS in engineering if one goes the BS Met than gard school route.

Gee, how did I know you'd be in here harping on the idea of switching one's major to (petroleum) engineering? Never heard that before...

[Ed Lizard]

Gee, how did I know you'd be in here harping on the idea of switching one's major to (petroleum) engineering? Never heard that before...

I actually recommended civil or mechanical. PetEng can be cyclical, I took a field job, boots, hard hat, 12 hour shifts, crap work. Took me years to get an office job. More flexibility in other engineering fields, and as noted, Tim Marshall has a civil engineering masters along with his met degrees.

ETA: I'm not the only one to mention the dearth of NWS positions available to all the met graduates, and I suspect you're going to grad school because they are no BS level opportunities. I could be wrong. If you had offers but you're at OU as a lover of severe weather, well, I'm kind of jealous. I tell my wife, if I ever break down and buy a Lotto ticket and win, we're moving to Norman or Tallahassee. (She'd probably insist on CLL to stay close to her family)

There will come a point where all the BS holders who can't get an NWS or private met job but still want to be mets will go for graduate degrees, and that will soon be followed by people with advanced degrees, and possibly impressive student loans, who still can't get a job in the field.

ETA2: I'm hearing similar things about law students. If one doesn't go to a top tier law school and maintain a very good GPA, I'm hearing a lot of people wind up working grunt jobs at big law firms, or even working as para-legals, at much lower pay than they were expecting.

[Scuddz]

ETA: I'm not the only one to mention the dearth of NWS positions available to all the met graduates, and I suspect you're going to grad school because they are no BS level opportunities. I could be wrong. If you had offers but you're at OU as a lover of severe weather, well, I'm kind of jealous. I tell my wife, if I ever break down and buy a Lotto ticket and win, we're moving to Norman or Tallahassee. (She'd probably insist on CLL to stay close to her family)

Why on earth would you ever want to move to Tallahassee?

[Ed Lizard]

Why on earth would you ever want to move to Tallahassee?

I just assumed, based on the phase diagrams/models page, they have a rocking tropical met program. Great posters from Albany, pretty part of the country, but I did a Winter at Saratoga Springs...

[am19psu]

Why on earth would you ever want to move to Tallahassee?

Maybe he likes cars jacked up on 22s?

[Scuddz]

Maybe he likes cars jacked up on 22s?

[baroclinic_instability]

Solution: just stay in school for as long as you can ... masters ... PhD ... Post Doc ... it's the way to go

Not everyone is as crazy as you are

BTW you should come back to AK next summer and do more great research.

[Brewers]

To any current mets, I've been thinking of taking a geography minor with emphasis on hydrogeography, climatology and GIS. Is that a smart idea or should I focus more on computer science?

[Ed Lizard]

Partially OT question- among TV weather people, what is the breakdown between people with a degree in met or related science, and photogenic people with a BA and a 60 hour AMS certificate via Mississippi State. If I had spent four years of hard study, and then had a hard time finding a job, I'd be upset.

I don't blame Crystal Eggers, however, for going the MSU 60 hour certificate route, at all. It did make me sad when our local KHOU-TV 11 went from an all met on air weather staff (including a retiring PhD chief met replaced by a PhD from NASA) with a morning weather person with the MSU certificate. No degreed mets on Houston TV for morning newscasts.