Question regarding Snowfall Averages

[CTWeatherFan]

Does anyone know the average annual snowfall for Hartford County, Connecticut, specifically around the Plainville area? Thanks in advance.

[weatherwiz]

Will or Ryan would definitely know that.

Maybe somewhere between 40-45''? Closer to 40''?

[Guest Pamela]

Does anyone know the average annual snowfall for Hartford County, Connecticut, specifically around the Plainville area? Thanks in advance.

When I was a good deal younger, the generally accepted average annual snowfall for Windsor Locks CT / Bradley Field was around 50". I went to the Boston NWS page and was somewhat taken aback to see that the 1981-2010 average had gone all the way down to around 41". Again, when I was considerably younger, Bradley was a good deal snowier than Logan Airport...but it appears Boston has the edge during the last 3 decades.

Plainville looks to be in the valley SE of the Litchfield Hills about midway between Bradley Field and Waterbury...one generally thinks of Waterbury and Danbury being "pretty close" in terms of annual snowfall...probably in the low 40's....and those two towns do not appear to have been as adversely affected over the last 30 years as Windsor Locks with regards to snow. So my estimate would be in the neighborhood of 40 - 45 inches annually for Planville (didn't check if the NWS has a cooperative station there). With the hiils to the west, there is likely rapid improvement when an ocean storm moves north of their latitude and the winds back around to NW. In those adjacent hills, snowfall increases very rapidly as one moves into Litchfield County...most areas above the 500' elevation contour average at least 60" per year...and stations over 1000' are often over 80"...especially close to the MA line...Norfolk, for example. During one particularly snowy stretch in the mid 20th century, Norfolk averaged 110" of snow per year (1951-73). They hold the state record for most snow in a season (177" in 1955-56) and snowiest month (73" in March 1956)...haven't checked if anything in January 2011 eclipsed that...

[Collinsville]

When I was a good deal younger, the generally accepted average annual snowfall for Windsor Locks CT / Bradley Field was around 50". I went to the Boston NWS page and was somewhat taken aback to see that the 1981-2010 average had gone all the way down to around 41".

Well, you have to realize that there's no snow data for BDL in the late 90's and incomplete data in the early 2000's. So not sure how useful a 81-10 average would be.

BDL clearly averages about 47-49 imo

Plainville would likely be 44-46

Norfolk, for example. During one particularly snowy stretch in the mid 20th century, Norfolk averaged 110" of snow per year (1951-73). They hold the state record for most snow in a season (177" in 1955-56) and snowiest month (73" in March 1956)..

That's if you believe those Norfolk numbers, I don't.

[Guest Pamela]

Well, you have to realize that there's no snow data for BDL in the late 90's and incomplete data in the early 2000's. So not sure how useful a 81-10 average would be.

BDL clearly averages about 47-49 imo

Was not aware they were not taking proper measurments over the last few years...so the old average I mentioned is likely close to correct.

That's if you believe those Norfolk numbers, I don't.

When I first read their stats, I did not believe them...until I took several trips up Route 44 from Winsted (often bare ground / coating)...7 miles WNW to Norfolk (often at least 2 feet on the ground).

<Believer>

[Collinsville]

When I first read their stats, I did not believe them...until I took several trips up Route 44 from Winsted (often bare ground / coating)...7 miles WNW to Norfolk (often at least 2 feet on the ground).

<Believer>

For the last 12 years I've occasionally worked on a CT snowfall map. All of the time has been spent collecting and analyzing lots and lots of data. If you do that it quickly becomes clear there are serious issues with Norfolks numbers starting in 1955 (not surprising is the occurrence of a new observer att). I would have to write a book to lay out all that is wrong. To be fair there are issues with pretty much everybody's numbers back then.

A quick look at some averages show that from 1915-55 it was 80.2" then for the next 23 years the average was 114.5". So +34 inches for 23 years? Not surprisingly the last 8 years under the current observer is 75.7" which is close to 80. The late 50's, 60 and 70's were snowy for sure but lets be reasonable. Norfolk averages 75-80" imho. It may have pumped to 90 or so for a bit there but not over 110.

[Guest Pamela]

For the last 12 years I've occasionally worked on a CT snowfall map. All of the time has been spent collecting and analyzing lots and lots of data. If you do that it quickly becomes clear there are serious issues with Norfolks numbers starting in 1955 (not surprising is the occurrence of a new observer att). I would have to write a book to lay out all that is wrong. To be fair there are issues with pretty much everybody's numbers back then.

A quick look at some averages show that from 1915-55 it was 80.2" then for the next 23 years the average was 114.5". So +34 inches for 23 years? Not surprisingly the last 8 years under the current observer is 75.7" which is close to 80. The late 50's, 60 and 70's were snowy for sure but lets be reasonable. Norfolk averages 75-80" imho. It may have pumped to 90 or so for a bit there but not over 110.

You have to remember that the station (elevation 1337') is on a plateau...which climatologists have demonstrated is often much more snow inducing than being on a hilltop...Norfolk also picks up considerable rotting lake effect...there are some similarities to their situation and say a town like Frostburg in Garrett County, MD.

The station has a very long history and a reliable reputation...I'm not sure how many observers there have been but I do think the actual annual snowfall average falls between 90 and 100 inches.

[Collinsville]

I know what Norfolks elevation is, I know the area very well. I use to fish Wood Creek Pond all the time. I live in CT close by there. But the facts are flawed in this case. Even with those wacky numbers included the 95 year average at Norfolk is 88" which is not even in your hypothetical 90-100 average. Its a flimsy case to hold onto cause that average is only going down as those flawed years get averaged out.

[Guest Pamela]

I know what Norfolks elevation is, I know the area very well. I use to fish Wood Creek Pond all the time. I live in CT close by there. But the facts are flawed in this case. Even with those wacky numbers included the 95 year average at Norfolk is 88" which is not even in your hypothetical 90-100 average. Its a flimsy case to hold onto cause that average is only going down as those flawed years get averaged out.

Over the last 79 years the average is 90.8" and calendar year 2011 was a good one for them with 108.1"...also bear in mind that cooperatives, as a general rule, tend to underreport...due either to missing data or undermeasurement.

http://www.greatmoun...totals-2011.pdf

[ChrisM]

I wish I knew what my avg was at 1k in harwinton, it drives me nuts. I have to think it's around 70"

I'd guess at that lower elevation you're like 40-45"

[powderfreak]

For the last 12 years I've occasionally worked on a CT snowfall map. All of the time has been spent collecting and analyzing lots and lots of data. If you do that it quickly becomes clear there are serious issues with Norfolks numbers starting in 1955 (not surprising is the occurrence of a new observer att). I would have to write a book to lay out all that is wrong. To be fair there are issues with pretty much everybody's numbers back then.

A quick look at some averages show that from 1915-55 it was 80.2" then for the next 23 years the average was 114.5". So +34 inches for 23 years? Not surprisingly the last 8 years under the current observer is 75.7" which is close to 80. The late 50's, 60 and 70's were snowy for sure but lets be reasonable. Norfolk averages 75-80" imho. It may have pumped to 90 or so for a bit there but not over 110.

I also have a very hard time believing 110" or higher at that location. That's closer to what Co-Ops up here in the Greens averages...in the upslope region most stations are between 100-140" averages and that's down at village elevations. There's no way NW CT competes with upslope areas in northern VT.

[ctsnowstorm628]

I wish I knew what my avg was at 1k in harwinton, it drives me nuts. I have to think it's around 70"

I'd guess at that lower elevation you're like 40-45"

Poor Chrissy poo.

[powderfreak]

Over the last 79 years the average is 90.8" and calendar year 2011 was a good one for them with 108.1"...also bear in mind that cooperatives, as a general rule, tend to underreport...due either to missing data or undermeasurement.

http://www.greatmoun...totals-2011.pdf

Think about how good 2011 was, and they only got 108"? How the heck would they average 110"+ over 20+ years? That would mean that 2011 was actually below average or not that great.

[ctsnowstorm628]

I also have a very hard time believing 110" or higher at that location. That's closer to what Co-Ops up here in the Greens averages...in the upslope region most stations are between 100-140" averages and that's down at village elevations. There's no way NW CT competes with upslope areas in northern VT.

Yeah the co-op in west Burke averages 94" so yeah lol

[powderfreak]

Yeah the co-op in west Burke averages 94" so yeah lol

Yeah I think here in Stowe at or below 1000ft we average like 115"-130" depending on what side of town you are on. And that's with a lot of 2-5" fluffy localized snows...I have a hard time believing somewhere in Litchfield County would run with the numbers up here over a consistent 20-25 year period. Especially given they don't get near the orographic assist and would have to get those values from a lot of synoptic snows...and that's A LOT of "dying lake effect."

[ctsnowstorm628]

Yeah I think here in Stowe at or below 1000ft we average like 115"-130" depending on what side of town you are on. And that's with a lot of 2-5" fluffy localized snows...I have a hard time believing somewhere in Litchfield County would run with the numbers up here over a consistent 20-25 year period. Especially given they don't get near the orographic assist and would have to get those values from a lot of synoptic snows...and that's A LOT of "dying lake effect."

The only thing they have over northern Vermont is the synoptic coastals that we don't get. Usually at 1337' it's snow/mix no matter what through February.

[powderfreak]

The only thing they have over northern Vermont is the synoptic coastals that we don't get. Usually at 1337' it's snow/mix no matter what through February.

Yeah but then we should see a big increase in snowfall amounts across the area during that time from like ALB to ORH if they get 30"+ increase in average for 25 years. That's if that huge increase in snow is due to increased coastal storms during that time.

[ChrisM]

I also have a very hard time believing 110" or higher at that location. That's closer to what Co-Ops up here in the Greens averages...in the upslope region most stations are between 100-140" averages and that's down at village elevations. There's no way NW CT competes with upslope areas in northern VT.

Theyre definitely at least 90...have you ever been there? Cts gods country..weird place.

[powderfreak]

Theyre definitely at least 90...have you ever been there? Cts gods country..weird place.

Oh yeah I believe the number is in the 85-95" range, but I have a hard time believing over 110" which would make it snowier than the Monadnocks.

[N. OF PIKE]

Oh yeah I believe the number is in the 85-95" range, but I have a hard time believing over 110" which would make it snowier than the Monadnocks.

isn't 90" snowier than the monads.....

what the heck do the monads ave.....socks is at like 1200' and i think they ave about 80.

[CoastalWx]

The mtns of NW CT are snowier than the Monads. They get rotting LE streamers that are a perfect trajectory right to them. I couldn't tell you how much they avg, but pretty sure it's over 90".

[powderfreak]

isn't 90" snowier than the monads.....

what the heck do the monads ave.....socks is at like 1200' and i think they ave about 80.

Yeah they may average more due to dying lake effect and some weak upslope during those NW flows...though Petes area and the Berks will be higher just based on latitude and greater upslope potential.

I wonder what Jaffery averages? This discussion needs ORH_wx for a good opinion on snowfall averages.

[powderfreak]

The mtns of NW CT are snowier than the Monads. They get rotting LE streamers that are a perfect trajectory right to them. I couldn't tell you how much they avg, but pretty sure it's over 90".

Ahh yeah...I wonder how much more they get from that lake effect. I'm just thinking in terms of the south to north gradient of the Taconics/ Berks/Greens that Litchfield County would be the lowest, then Petes area and the Berks, then southern VT/Greens followed by the highest in northern VT/Greens.

How much did everyone figure out Pete averages? At the same 1350 elevation in the Berkshires has got to be climo higher than the same elevation a tick south in CT because the topography is about the same. Pete also sees a lot of those 1-4" dying lake effect events.

[CoastalWx]

Ahh yeah...I wonder how much more they get from that lake effect. I'm just thinking in terms of the south to north gradient of the Taconics/ Berks/Greens that Litchfield County would be the lowest, then Petes area and the Berks, then southern VT/Greens followed by the highest in northern VT/Greens.

How much did everyone figure out Pete averages? At the same 1350 elevation in the Berkshires has got to be climo higher than the same elevation a tick south in CT because the topography is about the same. Pete also sees a lot of those 1-4" dying lake effect events.

Well don't forget the mtns of NW CT are different than Pete a bit when it comes to snow. Pete is east of the crest and the snow dries up a bit being 10-15 miles or so east of it. Up in NW CT..west of Norfolk, they don't have that much of a downslope effect that Pete can get.

[powderfreak]

Well don't forget the mtns of NW CT are different than Pete a bit when it comes to snow. Pete is east of the crest and the snow dries up a bit being 10-15 miles or so east of it. Up in NW CT..west of Norfolk, they don't have that much of a downslope effect that Pete can get.

That's true...you think they average about the same as Pete's east slope?

[CoastalWx]

That's true...you think they average about the same as Pete's east slope?

I think they may avg a bit more to be honest, but I don't have the data in front of me.

[wxmanmitch]

You have to remember that the station (elevation 1337') is on a plateau...which climatologists have demonstrated is often much more snow inducing than being on a hilltop...Norfolk also picks up considerable rotting lake effect...there are some similarities to their situation and say a town like Frostburg in Garrett County, MD.

The station has a very long history and a reliable reputation...I'm not sure how many observers there have been but I do think the actual annual snowfall average falls between 90 and 100 inches.

I've often observed that plateau vs. hilltop snow effect to be true here in the Berkshires and Taconics. The Berkshire Mountains form a 2K plateau just to my east that is about 5-10 miles wide on average. It gets wider and higher as you head north toward the southern Greens (the Berkshires and Greens are part of the same mountain building event and are the same geologically - the Taconics are older and are a result of a separate orogeny). The Taconics are a narrow 2K+ ridgeline that straddle the NY/MA, NY/VT border. The ridge crest is not more than a 1/4 to 1/2 mile wide in most spots. Despite their similar elevations, the Berkshires are definitely snowier than the Taconics. Not only that, the Berkshires also hold the snow better too. 2K in Windsor or Peru, MA is not the same as 2K going over the Taconic trail west of Williamstown, MA. Although the Taconics tend to do a little better in NW flow upslope situations, the Berkshires are definitely the winners overall, perhaps because they get more enhancement in easterly flow synoptic snow situations. As for why plateaus generally do better than narrow hilltops of similar elevation in terms of seasonal snowfall, I'm not sure. Perhaps someone else here can chime in on that and provide a scientific explanation.

I wish I knew what my avg was at 1k in harwinton, it drives me nuts. I have to think it's around 70"

I'd guess at that lower elevation you're like 40-45"

I would gather Harwinton, CT at 1K is probably 60-65" a year, and Norfolk, CT gets about 70-75" a year. Despite being a little higher up than me, Norfolk doesn't get as much of the upslope and rotting lake effect as I do. I get about 75-80" here in Lenox, MA at 1,150' ASL. Pete in West Chesterfield is probably about 85-90", except he has much better snowpack retention than I do, making it seem like he gets a lot more. 2K in central and northern Berkshires is probably 100-105", while 2K in the southern Greens is probably 110-115".

The mtns of NW CT are snowier than the Monads. They get rotting LE streamers that are a perfect trajectory right to them. I couldn't tell you how much they avg, but pretty sure it's over 90".

I'm not sure the high spots of NW CT are snowier than the Monadnocks IMO. Although they do get some of the rotting lake effect and upslope stuff, it just seems like NW CT gets screwed a lot by mid-level warming and gets sleet while the Monads are protected by CAD more and stay snow. Besides, many times the NW flow stuff doesn't make it that far south as it gets eaten up by the 4K Catskills upwind of them. The Catskills are mostly below my latitude, so I will get it a bit more.

I still think latitude is a bit more important than elevation for snow here in New England, unlike the mountains out west, where it's pretty much all elevation. Salisbury, CT is on a plateau at 1.8K and they probably average about 85-90". I'm pretty certain there are areas in the Monads around 1.5K that average about 95-100" due to their latitude and being better situated in late blooming Miller B nor'easters. NW CT (and the Berks as well) will often miss out on those late bloomers. As a snow weenie, I'd rather be in a good spot for synoptic snows than the lake effect leftovers.

[powderfreak]

Mitch...great post. I agree on all aspects. I think latitude is huge in terms of averages, which is why whatever Norfolk averages, I have to imagine you and Pete average more, and then SVT is another 10" higher at equal elevation. I mean that's how the ski area snowfall works out too.

Jiminy Peak in the Berks averages 100" or so they claim, followed by 150" range in SVT areas like Okemo and Mt Snow, then 200"+ at Killington, 250" at Sugarbush/MRG and finally 300" from Bolton and Stowe, with Jay topping it all at 330".

Granted those are summit level snowfall but I gotta imagine towns around these areas follow similar pattern of a steady increase with latitude, provided you hold elevation constant. Such that in town elevations it ranges from 75-90" in CT, 80-100" in MA, 95-115" in southern/central VT, and 115-140" up this way.

[snowman21]

Norfolk's 1981-2010 normal snowfall is 78.4 inches - pretty close to mitch's estimated range.

[wxmanmitch]

Mitch...great post. I agree on all aspects. I think latitude is huge in terms of averages, which is why whatever Norfolk averages, I have to imagine you and Pete average more, and then SVT is another 10" higher at equal elevation. I mean that's how the ski area snowfall works out too.

Jiminy Peak in the Berks averages 100" or so they claim, followed by 150" range in SVT areas like Okemo and Mt Snow, then 200"+ at Killington, 250" at Sugarbush/MRG and finally 300" from Bolton and Stowe, with Jay topping it all at 330".

I gotta imagine towns around these areas follow similar pattern of a steady increase with latitude, provided you hold elevation constant.

I'd say 100" is reasonable for Jiminy as they face NW right into that upslope stuff. They don't do as well synoptically as areas to the east, but I've seen Jiminy get a foot of upslope in the right situation. Higher latitudes will generally do better in SWFE scenarios and are more likely to remain all snow in nor'easters, provided they reach that far north. Higher latitudes are also more likely climatologically to get hit with a Miller B storm or nice snowy clipper.

The northern mountains of New England also seem to really cash in with these cutoff lows in SE Canada that wrap around moisture on a NW flow. A lot of that stuff often dries up further south.