Analog96 Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 LGA: 2000 - 12 2001 - 17 2002 - 35 2003 - 17 2004 - 7 2005 - 30 2006 - 22 2007 - 23 2008 - 19 2009 - 8 2010 - 48 2011 - 19 JFK: 2000 - 6 2001 - 8 2002 - 21 2003 - 12 2004 - 1 2005 - 17 2006 - 12 2007 - 7 2008 - 9 2009 - 6 2010 - 32 2011 - 13 LGA is probably the most representative of Midtown, with the way the Central Park sensor has been lately. The only cool summers on this list really are 2000, 2004, and 2009. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ag3 Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 LGA is probably the most representative of Midtown, with the way the Central Park sensor has been lately. The only cool summers on this list really are 2000, 2004, and 2009. Of midtown, yes. But I bet if there was a thermometer in Whitestone, Bayside area of Queens (3-5 miles east of LGA), the numbers would be very close to NYC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Analog96 Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 That would've affected the overall average 90+ degree days. NYC and LGA both average the same 90+ degree days a year. The area around LGA has underwent major urbanization since the 1960's and has been affected greatly by urban heat effect. No, it wouldn't affect the normals. The trees have just grown enough to really affect the readings in the last 10 or 15 years or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
famartin Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 That would've affected the overall average 90+ degree days. NYC and LGA both average the same 90+ degree days a year. The area around LGA has underwent major urbanization since the 1960's and has been affected greatly by urban heat effect. Actually not, because... http://lwf.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/online/ccd/max90temp.html "DATA THROUGH 2002" And ASOS has only been installed at Central Park since ~1995. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Analog96 Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Of midtown, yes. But I bet if there was a thermometer in Whitestone, Bayside area of Queens (3-5 miles east of LGA), the numbers would be very close to NYC. Probably not during the day. They would be cooler at night. Again, look at the trees around the sensor from the pic that Ray posted. You are not supposed to take temperature (or wind, or humidity) readings for that matter, from a forest! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ag3 Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Probably not during the day. They would be cooler at night. Again, look at the trees around the sensor from the pic that Ray posted. You are not supposed to take temperature (or wind, or humidity) readings for that matter, from a forest! Most of Bayside and NE Queens is covered in Trees. At the same time, you are not supposed to take temperatures on a cement factory airport and near a tarmac with jet engine airplanes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
famartin Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 That would've affected the overall average 90+ degree days. NYC and LGA both average the same 90+ degree days a year. The area around LGA has underwent major urbanization since the 1960's and has been affected greatly by urban heat effect. I'm pretty sure the area around LGA has been pretty well developed since at least the 1940s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pazzo83 Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 KNYC should be relocated to the middle of Times Sq. That is representative of what it is like in midtown on any given day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ag3 Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Actually not, because... http://lwf.ncdc.noaa.../max90temp.html "DATA THROUGH 2002" And ASOS has only been installed at Central Park since ~1995. Thanks for the info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ag3 Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 KNYC should be relocated to the middle of Times Sq. That is representative of what it is like in midtown on any given day. Agree. Central Park is not a good climo station for Manhattan. It represents the Bronx and NE Queens better then its own borough. LGA is very representative of Manhattan and any other northern area that has no trees at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Analog96 Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Most of Bayside and NE Queens is covered in Trees. At the same time, you are not supposed to take temperatures on a cement factory airport and near a tarmac with jet engine airplanes. It doesn't matter if the area is "covered in trees". If you put a thermometer within the confines of those trees, it is automatically disqualified. Even COOP sites from state forests have to be placed away from the trees! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ag3 Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 I'm pretty sure the area around LGA has been pretty well developed since at least the 1940s. Just during that last 15 years, since I've been there, there has been major urbanization and new building projects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ag3 Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 It doesn't matter if the area is "covered in trees". If you put a thermometer within the confines of those trees, it is automatically disqualified. Even COOP sites from state forests have to be placed away from the trees! But again, putting a thermometer surrounded by airport cement and a jet engine factory is also not purely accurate but Manhattan itself is pretty much has similar conditions to the LGA tarmac so its accurate for Manhattan itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
famartin Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Most of Bayside and NE Queens is covered in Trees. At the same time, you are not supposed to take temperatures on a cement factory airport and near a tarmac with jet engine airplanes. Its not on a cement factory. http://weather.gladstonefamily.net/site/KLGA Its closer to asphalt than it should be (looks like ~70 feet, regs say 100 feet). But you also might think that big sound next to it would have a cooling influence of some sort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
famartin Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Just during that last 15 years, since I've been there, there has been major urbanization and new building projects. Do point out what is new on the sat image from the link I just posted. I'm really curious where there used to be woods and fields as opposed to now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Analog96 Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Its not on a cement factory. http://weather.glads...y.net/site/KLGA Its closer to asphalt than it should be (looks like ~70 feet, regs say 100 feet). But you also might think that big sound next to it would have a cooling influence of some sort. So, according to standards and regulations, LGA is in a more accurate location vs. Central Park. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
famartin Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 So, according to standards and regulations, LGA is in a more accurate location vs. Central Park. They both have their pluses and minuses. Ideally equipment should be in an open field no closer than 100 feet to asphalt or a building. Or trees. Of course, those pluses and minuses make them run the way they do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ag3 Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Its not on a cement factory. http://weather.glads...y.net/site/KLGA Its closer to asphalt than it should be (looks like ~70 feet, regs say 100 feet). But you also might think that big sound next to it would have a cooling influence of some sort. That area of the coast is very shallow and marshy. It heats up past 80 degrees quicker then the true sound, which starts NE of there. The actual LI sound starts east of the Throggs Neck Bridge. Its a great early season striped bass area because of the quickness of heating to the prime 58+ degrees needed for striped bass to feed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluewave Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Despite the differences, both LGA and NYC maxed out at 104 last summer. http://www.erh.noaa....ns/07232011.txt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Analog96 Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Despite the differences, both LGA and NYC maxed out at 104 last summer. http://www.erh.noaa....ns/07232011.txt I measured 106 and EWR 108 FWIW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluewave Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 I measured 106 and EWR 108 FWIW. I guess that was the heat misers way of making up for the thermo malfunction at EWR the year before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Analog96 Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 I guess that was the heat misers way of making up for the thermo malfunction at EWR the year before. It wasn't a thermo malfunction. The humidity, and alas, the dew point was wildly off. That much is true. But my temperature, and Tony's temperature in Harrison were exactly the same, both using NWS-approved equipment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ag3 Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Do point out what is new on the sat image from the link I just posted. I'm really curious where there used to be woods and fields as opposed to now. I mean the areas around LGA. Astoria, Jackson Heights, Corona, Flushing, College Point, etc. These areas have gone through substantial urbanization over the past 40 years. Even in the past 10 years, there has been a building bust. Hunters Point area of Astoria is just one example. Over the past 10 years, this area has sprawled into a mini-city with many skyscrapers erected and many more being proposed: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluewave Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 It wasn't a thermo malfunction. The humidity, and alas, the dew point was wildly off. That much is true. But my temperature, and Tony's temperature in Harrison were exactly the same, both using NWS-approved equipment. I agree with that but at least we got a replay a year later to set the record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Analog96 Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 I agree with that but at least we got a replay a year later to set the record. Agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
famartin Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 I mean the areas around LGA. Astoria, Jackson Heights, Corona, Flushing, College Point, etc. These areas have gone through substantial urbanization over the past 40 years. Even in the past 10 years, there has been a building bust. Still having trouble with this. What areas were natural before and aren't now? A quick glance at the satellite image suggests the area has been pretty developed for a long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ag3 Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Willets Point is another area that will begin major urbanization, over the next 5 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
famartin Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 I mean the areas around LGA. Astoria, Jackson Heights, Corona, Flushing, College Point, etc. These areas have gone through substantial urbanization over the past 40 years. Even in the past 10 years, there has been a building bust. Hunters Point area of Astoria is just one example. Over the past 10 years, this area has sprawled into a mini-city with many skyscrapers erected and many more being proposed: The replacement of lower buildings with skyscrapers is unlikely to have a positive additional effect on the urban heat island. In fact, I wonder if it could have a slight negative effect (since the "ground" is more heavily shaded and surfaces getting sunlight are elevated higher into the sky). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ag3 Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 The replacement of lower buildings with skyscrapers is unlikely to have a positive additional effect on the urban heat island. In fact, I wonder if it could have a slight negative effect (since the "ground" is more heavily shaded and surfaces getting sunlight are elevated higher into the sky). The area of LIC and soon Willets Point had no residential buildings and no residents and are now being built into new cities. Are you from this area? Anyone from Queens, knows there has been urbanization over the past 10-15 years and especially, since 2002, during the housing boom. Even in wealthy neighborhoods, like Malba, Queens, areas that were mini-forests with no homes at all have been developed into 20-30 home communities, surrounded by $2-$10 million mansions. Hunters Point, LI had NO buildings and no communities and over the past 10 years, numerous buildings of over 40 floors have been erected with 10-15 more in the process of starting. The buildings have added 5,000+ residents to an area that had none and in its final proposal, will be a city of 30,000+. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
famartin Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 The area of LIC and soon Willets Point had no residential buildings and no residents and are now being built into new cities. Are you from this area? Anyone from Queens, knows there has been urbanization over the past 10-15 years and especially, since 2002, during the housing boom. Even in wealthy neighborhoods, like Malba, Queens, areas that were mini-forests with no homes at all have been developed into 20-30 home communities, surrounded by $2-$10 million mansions. Hunters Point, LI had NO buildings and no communities and over the past 10 years, numerous buildings of over 40 floors have been erected with 10-15 more in the process of starting. The buildings have added 5,000+ residents to an area that had none and in its final proposal, will be a city of 30,000+. OK, let me make this crystal clear. Please point out, on the satellite image, where there was significantly less ARTIFICIAL GROUND COVER. If its not on the map, or if the area was covered by lower buildings, then it probably has minimal, if any effect on LGA. Size of buildings doesn't matter much, if at all. What matters is replacing bare dirt with asphalt, concrete, steel, roofing tile, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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