YYZ VS DTW Last 20 years snowfall

[dmc76]

So there's been some friendly debate between YYZ and DTW and It's starting to flood some of these threads. So decided to compare the two cities in most of our lifetimes. So I figure to start from 91/92 gives us the last 20 years. If you guys want to fill in the rest of the years go ahead. Im sure these amounts that I posted are not 100% correct but I guarantee there at least 95% correct. Please correct the areas you think I made errors. So go ahead chat in this thread about Climo between the two.

Year/ Amount # of(8"+) (12"+) (15"+) Biggest Snow event/ Biggest Snow depth

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DTW..............................................................................................YYZ:

1991/92 43.5" (1) (0) (0) 11.1" 12".................... .........................38.4" (0) (0) (0) 6.8" 8"

1992/93 52.2" (0) (0) (0) 7.5" 7".................... ....... .................64.6" (1) (1) (0) 12.3" 12"

1993/94 45.8" (2) (0) (0) 10.3" 10".............................................60.4" (1) (1) (0) 10.1" 11"

1994/95 33.5" (0) (0) (0) 7.6" 7"........................... ..................30.3" (0) (0) (0) 5.8" 6"

1995/96 27.6" (0) (0) (0) 5.8" 6"..............................................57.1" (0) (0) (0) 5.4" 6"

1996/97 40.0" (0) (0) (0) 4.5" 5"..............................................69.2" (0) (0) (0) 7.6" 10"

1997/98 23.4" (0) (0) (0) 4.8" 6"..............................................46.0" (2) (0) (0) 9.3" 8"

1998/99 49.5" (1) (0) (0) 11.3" 24".............................................64.5" (2) (0) (1) 16.0" 26"

1999/00 23.7" (0) (0) (0) 4.0" 5"..............................................32.6" (0) (0) (0) 5.1" 7"

2000/01 39.0" (0) (0) (0) 6.1" 12"..............................................65.6" (3) (0) (0) 10.3" 13"

2001/02 33.7" (0) (0) (0) 7.6" 8"..............................................26.8" (0) (0) (0) 4.8" 5"

2002/03 60.9" (0) (0) (0) 7.3" 9"..............................................65.0" (3) (0) (0) 11.2" 10"

2003/04 24.1" (0) (0) (0) 4.7" 5"..............................................43.9" (1) (0) (0) 11.8" 12"

2004/05 63.8" (0) (1) (0) 12.2" 12"..............................................55.1" (2) (0) (0) 8.3" 11"

2005/06 36.3" (0) (0) (0) 6.2" 8"..............................................40.5" (0) (0) (0) 4.0" 6"

2006/07 30.3" (0) (0) (0) 8.5" 8"..............................................31.1" (0) (0) (0) 5.9" 12"

2007/08 71.7" (2) (0) (0) 9.0" 9"..............................................98.4" (3) (1) (0) 13.4" 19"

2008/09 65.7" (0) (0) (0) 7.9" 14"..............................................51.4" (1) (0) (0) 8.0" 14"

2009/10 43.7" (1) (0) (0) 8.6" 10".............................................18.1" (0) (0) (0) 3.9" 5"

2010/11 69.1" (2) (0) (0) 10.3" 16"..............................................48.4" (0) (0) (0) 6.4" 13"

2011/12 25.8" (0) (0) (0) ..............................................22.5" (0) (0) (0)

Toronto 13, Detroit 7 Years with more Snow

Toronto 19, Detroit 9 with 8 - 11.9" events

Toronto 3, Detroit 1 with 12 - 14.9" events

Toronto 1, Detroit 0 with 15"+ events

DTW Most Years Consecutive without an 8" event: 6 yrs/72.5 months Jan 99 - Jan 2005

YYZ 3 yrs 38 months Dec 08 - current

DTW Most Years Consecutive without an 12" event: 13 years

YYZ 9 years

DTW Most Years Consecutive without an 15" event: NA

YYZ 13 years

DTW Biggest Snow event Jan 2005 12.2"

YYZ Jan 1999 16.0"

DTW Most Days with a Snow depth: 80 2010/11

YYZ 109 2007/08

DTW Least Days with a Snow depth: 30 1997/98

27 2009/10

DTW Deepest Snow depth: 24" Jan 99

YYZ 26" Jan 99

Averages Since 1991/92 ***DOES NOT INCLUDE 11/12

-------------------------------

DTW 44.0"

YYZ 51.0"

[Snowstorms]

Nice analysis man but since 09-10, DTW has been ahead of YYZ and you guys have been getting much more snow than us. Also your final seasonal total for 2009-10 is wrong. Toronto got just over 20" that Winter with other areas between 20" and 28".

2007-08 featured legit storms and alot of Gulf Lows which hasnt been very common over the past few years and has been difficult to achieve.

[snowstormcanuck]

You must have used Buttonville data for Toronto. That's like using White Lake data for Detroit. 98.4" in 2007-08? Lol. Great winter. Not that great.

[Snowstorms]

You must have used Buttonville data for Toronto. That's like using White Lake data for Detroit. 98.4" in 2007-08? Lol. Great winter. Not that great.

Yeah but that 98.4" is actually legit compared to YYZ.

BTW canuck, you have to look at this;

http://www.climate.weatheroffice.gc.ca/climateData/dailydata_e.html?StationID=4841&Month=2&Day=26&Year=2012&timeframe=2

How the f*ck did Buttonville record 9.2cm 2 days ago???

Plus, when is EC going to change that 2.2mm, its really irritating and when you compare it to other stations its laughable.

[Stebo]

I am going to go with a who cares who has had more, Toronto has been jobbed a ton as of late compared to here. What happened 10-15 years ago is all but distant memory.

[Toronto4]

Yeah but that 98.4" is actually legit compared to YYZ.

BTW canuck, you have to look at this;

http://www.climate.w...012&timeframe=2

How the f*ck did Buttonville record 9.2cm 2 days ago???

Plus, when is EC going to change that 2.2mm, its really irritating and when you compare it to other stations its laughable.

The weather station in East York recorded 9.2 cm last Friday. LOL.

http://www.climate.weatheroffice.gc.ca/climateData/dailydata_e.html?timeframe=2&Prov=ONT&StationID=45967&dlyRange=2007-05-24|2012-02-24&Year=2012&Month=2&Day=1

[snowstormcanuck]

Yeah but that 98.4" is actually legit compared to YYZ.

BTW canuck, you have to look at this;

http://www.climate.w...012&timeframe=2

How the f*ck did Buttonville record 9.2cm 2 days ago???

Plus, when is EC going to change that 2.2mm, its really irritating and when you compare it to other stations its laughable.

Actually, looking at the list, it's a hodge podge. 2008-09 seems to be the downtown number. 2011-12 is either Buttonville or North York. Or maybe it was a conversion issue? Later this evening I'll post the numbers using North York data.

No idea about the Friday system. Ottawa Blizzard said he had some snow stick where he lives in north Scarborough. There may have been a tight NW-SE gradient across the city. Not sure.

And like I said, you're gonna have to show some patience wrt the February 11 snowfall. Like I said, it sometimes takes months to do the appropriate quality control.

[Snowstorms]

The weather station in East York recorded 9.2 cm last Friday. LOL.

http://www.climate.w...2&Month=2&Day=1

Then how the f*ck is YYZ at 0.8cm?????

Canuck or you, send them another email.

I live in Vaughan, about 5-10 mins away from Wonderland and I barely got 2cm.

[snowstormcanuck]

The weather station in East York recorded 9.2 cm last Friday. LOL.

http://www.climate.w...2&Month=2&Day=1

That's BS.

[snowstormcanuck]

Then how the f*ck is YYZ at 0.8cm?????

Canuck or you, send them another email.

I live in Vaughan, about 5-10 mins away from Wonderland and I barely got 2cm.

Something wrong with your fingers?

[Snowstorms]

I am going to go with a who cares who has had more, Toronto has been jobbed a ton as of late compared to here. What happened 10-15 years ago is all but distant memory.

Exactly, excellent point man.

History is history but despite some minor differences we had our shares in the past but since 09-10 that has not been the case.

And even in this crappy year, DTW is far ahead than Toronto and has actually gotten a decent amount of snow compared to us.

[dmc76]

I am going to go with a who cares who has had more, Toronto has been jobbed a ton as of late compared to here. What happened 10-15 years ago is all but distant memory.

Im going to go ahead and say.... If you dont like the topic then DONT POST.

This topic is just for fun.

[Snowstorms]

Something wrong with your fingers?

You know I was being serious right?

This is going to effect our final seasonal totals and if these errors dont get fixed a new record low can be assured unless March/April offer something out of the blue.

[Toronto4]

Then how the f*ck is YYZ at 0.8cm?????

Canuck or you, send them another email.

I live in Vaughan, about 5-10 mins away from Wonderland and I barely got 2cm.

I think it's up to each station observer to determine how to split the rain/snow numbers if both types of precip fall on the same day and/or at the same time. It's kind of like April 2-3, 2005. Both Pearson and downtown recorded over 15 cm (it was a rain/snow mix), but only an inch or so at best was on the ground.

[snowstormcanuck]

I am going to go with a who cares who has had more, Toronto has been jobbed a ton as of late compared to here. What happened 10-15 years ago is all but distant memory.

Beh, comparing stats is always fun. But I 100% agree with your 2nd sentence. I'd say almost anything is debatable. Not that though.

[snowstormcanuck]

You know I was being serious right?

Yes

[toronto blizzard]

I think it's pretty safe to say that Toronto repels snow at least these last few years. When you compare everyone else in the eastern lakes region we stick out like a sore thumb

[Snowstorms]

I think it's up to each station observer to determine how to split the rain/snow numbers if both types of precip fall on the same day and/or at the same time. It's kind of like April 2-3, 2005. Both Pearson and downtown recorded over 15 cm (it was a rain/snow mix), but only an inch or so at best was on the ground.

Instead of measuring the snow depth they should also use the amount of qpf that fell and how much of it was frozen and how much liquid and that way we can have legit numbers and also factor in snow ratios.

[dmc76]

I think it's pretty safe to say that Toronto repels snow at least these last few years. When you compare everyone else in the eastern lakes region we stick out like a sore thumb

I think its pretty safe to say that DTW and YYZ are not big snowstorm areas. When i was doing this research i seen so many 2-4" events from both cities.

[Ottawa Blizzard]

Actually, looking at the list, it's a hodge podge. 2008-09 seems to be the downtown number. 2011-12 is either Buttonville or North York. Or maybe it was a conversion issue? Later this evening I'll post the numbers using North York data.

No idea about the Friday system. Ottawa Blizzard said he had some snow stick where he lives in north Scarborough. There may have been a tight NW-SE gradient across the city. Not sure.

And like I said, you're gonna have to show some patience wrt the February 11 snowfall. Like I said, it sometimes takes months to do the appropriate quality control.

I received about 2"/5cm. My snowstick is pretty good too as we've pounded it right into the ground and start the measurement from zero inches/cm. I don't know if there's a slight valley in the area where I live, but I generally get lower temperatures than other areas...not that I'm complaining! NE Toronto is the best area of the city in the winter for snow and cold (except when a system tracks south and grazes downtown). As canuck said, likely due to latitude and being away from the lake. i also have a bigger chance of getting lake snows off of Georgian Bay. I was downtown on Saturday and they had bare ground, even on the grassy areas.

[toronto blizzard]

I think its pretty safe to say that DTW and YYZ are not big snowstorm areas. When i was doing this research i seen so many 2-4" events fromboth cities.

WE just aren't located in a good snowstorm climo. Ottawa and Montreal almost always do better than YYZ when storms take a favorable track for us because it picks up atlantic moisture and dumps it on them

[Snowstorms]

I received about 2"/5cm. My snowstick is pretty good too as we've pounded it right into the ground and start the measurement from zero inches/cm. I don't know if there's a slight valley in the area where I live, but I generally get lower temperatures than other areas...not that I'm complaining! NE Toronto is the best area of the city in the winter for snow and cold (except when a system tracks south and grazes downtown). As canuck said, likely due to latitude and being away from the lake. i also have a bigger chance of getting lake snows off of Georgian Bay. I was downtown on Saturday and they had bare ground, even on the grassy areas.

No I think its my area because I'm further north than you in Vaughan and trust me, I probably get the most LES in the GTA off G-bay. I got a good 6-7" in December 2010 because of LES but there are times when I'm not winning and in fact losing and that has happened numerous times but overall my area is often cooler and generally snowier than areas further south. But that still doesnt explain the nearly 4" Buttonville got, lol.

I'm about 10-15 mins. away from them and north of North York and I only got 2-3cm of wet slush which melted by night.

T-storms are more local than that.

[snowstormcanuck]

I probably get the most LES in the GTA off G-bay.

King City

Aurora

Newmarket

Georgina

Witchurch-Stouffville

West Gwillimbury

Caldeon

Brock

Uxbridge

[snowstormcanuck]

So there's been some friendly debate between YYZ and DTW and It's starting to flood some of these threads. So decided to compare the two cities in most of our lifetimes. So I figure to start from 91/92 gives us the last 20 years. If you guys want to fill in the rest of the years go ahead. Im sure these amounts that I posted are not 100% correct but I guarantee there at least 95% correct. Please correct the areas you think I made errors. So go ahead chat in this thread about Climo between the two.

Year/ Amount # of(8"+) (12"+) (15"+) Biggest Snow event/ Biggest Snow depth

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DTW..............................................................................................YYZ:

1991/92 43.5" (1) (0) (0) 11.1" 12".................... .........................38.4" (0) (0) (0) 6.8" 8"

1992/93 52.2" (0) (0) (0) 7.5" 7".................... ....... .................64.6" (1) (1) (0) 12.3" 12"

1993/94 45.8" (2) (0) (0) 10.3" 10".............................................60.4" (1) (1) (0) 10.1" 11"

1994/95 33.5" (0) (0) (0) 7.6" 7"........................... ..................31.9" (0) (0) (0) 5.8" 6"

1995/96 27.6" (0) (0) (0) 5.8" 6"..............................................59.2" (0) (0) (0) 5.4" 6"

1996/97 40.0" (0) (0) (0) 4.5" 5"..............................................65.7" (0) (0) (0) 7.6" 10"

1997/98 23.4" (0) (0) (0) 4.8" 6"..............................................44.2" (2) (0) (0) 9.3" 8"

1998/99 49.5" (1) (0) (0) 11.3" 24".............................................50.0" (2) (0) (1) 16.0" 26"

1999/00 23.7" (0) (0) (0) 4.0" 5"..............................................34.8" (0) (0) (0) 5.1" 7"

2000/01 39.0" (0) (0) (0) 6.1" 12"..............................................71.3" (3) (0) (0) 10.3" 13"

2001/02 33.7" (0) (0) (0) 7.6" 8"..............................................36.6" (0) (0) (0) 4.8" 5"

2002/03 60.9" (0) (0) (0) 7.3" 9"..............................................59.9" (3) (0) (0) 11.2" 10"

2003/04 24.1" (0) (0) (0) 4.7" 5"..............................................42.6" (1) (0) (0) 11.8" 12"

2004/05 63.8" (0) (1) (0) 12.2" 12"..............................................65.2" (2) (0) (0) 8.3" 11"

2005/06 36.3" (0) (0) (0) 6.2" 8"..............................................42.6" (0) (0) (0) 4.0" 6"

2006/07 30.3" (0) (0) (0) 8.5" 8"..............................................32.8" (0) (0) (0) 5.9" 12"

2007/08 71.7" (2) (0) (0) 9.0" 9"..............................................91.6" (3) (1) (0) 13.4" 19"

2008/09 65.7" (0) (0) (0) 7.9" 14"..............................................75.0" (1) (0) (0) 8.0" 14"

2009/10 43.7" (1) (0) (0) 8.6" 10".............................................23.7" (0) (0) (0) 3.9" 5"

2010/11 69.1" (2) (0) (0) 10.3" 16"..............................................60.1" (0) (0) (0) 6.4" 13"

2011/12 25.8" (0) (0) (0) ..............................................19.7" (0) (0) (0)

Toronto 14, Detroit 6 Years with more Snow

Toronto 19, Detroit 9 with 8 - 11.9" events

Toronto 3, Detroit 1 with 12 - 14.9" events

Toronto 1, Detroit 0 with 15"+ events

DTW Most Years Consecutive without an 8" event: 6 yrs/72.5 months Jan 99 - Jan 2005

YYZ 3 yrs 38 months Dec 08 - current

DTW Most Years Consecutive without an 12" event: 13 years

YYZ 9 years

DTW Most Years Consecutive without an 15" event: NA

YYZ 13 years

DTW Biggest Snow event Jan 2005 12.2"

YYZ Jan 1999 16.0"

DTW Most Days with a Snow depth: 80 2010/11

YYZ 109 2007/08

DTW Least Days with a Snow depth: 30 1997/98

27 2009/10

DTW Deepest Snow depth: 24" Jan 99

YYZ 26" Jan 99

Averages Since 1991/92 ***DOES NOT INCLUDE 11/12

-------------------------------

DTW 44.0"

YYZ 52.5"

There it is. I switched the data from 1994-95 and beyond to EC WFO in North York. It's really only the last 3 years we've been schooled nicely by Detroit.

I gotta give dmc credit. He sorta puts some of our whining into context. But remember, for a winter wx enthusiast, three years might as well be an eternity. So bear with us.

[weatherpsycho]

Wow. Looking at that DTW weather stats makes me SOOO glad I am near DTX and not DTW.

[michsnowfreak]

There it is. I switched the data from 1994-95 and beyond to EC WFO in North York. It's really only the last 3 years we've been schooled nicely by Detroit.

I gotta give dmc credit. He sorta puts some of our whining into context. But remember, for a winter wx enthusiast, three years might as well be an eternity. So bear with us.

You hit the nail on the head with 3 years being an eternity. Hell, a week is an eternity to a weather enthusiast lol. And also remember technically Toronto is supposed to average 10"+ more than Detroit per winter I believe (historically much more than that), so the fact that it is Detroit who is outsnowing Toronto by a good margin the last 3 years shows that indeed Toronto has been struggling mightily. But in the end, I still laugh everytime someone says something like Toronto or Detroit, or Milwaukee, etc are "not good snow cities". No, they are not the best, and yes they are a short distance from areas who do much better because of the Great Lakes, but in the grand scheme of things, and in comparison with most of this boards posters, these places are better snow/winter places than most.

[mississaugasnow]

You know I was being serious right?

This is going to effect our final seasonal totals and if these errors dont get fixed a new record low can be assured unless March/April offer something out of the blue.

I know Pearson messes up a lot but not as much as you think. The size of the GTA is massive therefore you will see several discrepancies among airports. For example the difference between buttonville airport and Pearson is 38.5 km. and Vaughan and Richmond hill anywhere from 25-33 km away. Lakeshore communities are around 15km away and I don't say that Pearson is putting snowfall totals to high since I received no snow in my backyard. Just something to think about when you say how come I have 10cm of snow in my backyard and pearson only wrote 5.

[dmc76]

Wow. Looking at that DTW weather stats makes me SOOO glad I am near DTX and not DTW.

And I bet with DTW being well outside of the City. Im sure cities like Detroit, St. Clair Shores, Redford, Dearborn, Gross PT etc... Sees at least 2-4" less a year.

[Ottawa Blizzard]

You hit the nail on the head with 3 years being an eternity. Hell, a week is an eternity to a weather enthusiast lol. And also remember technically Toronto is supposed to average 10"+ more than Detroit per winter I believe (historically much more than that), so the fact that it is Detroit who is outsnowing Toronto by a good margin the last 3 years shows that indeed Toronto has been struggling mightily. But in the end, I still laugh everytime someone says something like Toronto or Detroit, or Milwaukee, etc are "not good snow cities". No, they are not the best, and yes they are a short distance from areas who do much better because of the Great Lakes, but in the grand scheme of things, and in comparison with most of this boards posters, these places are better snow/winter places than most.

You make good points here. Many Canadians don't realize that Toronto averages only slightly less snow than Edmonton and more snow than Winnipeg. Even more are shocked to discover that Ottawa averages more snow than Calgary.

[an uncanny otter]

Toronto has a population of 2.5 million, and there are 5.5 million in the GTA. 52" of snow per year might not seem huge when compared to snowbelt regions nearby, but what you have to remember is that there are very few cities in the world comparable in population that receive as much snow as Toronto.

Yeah, obviously there's no competition between Toronto and, say, Montreal. But for a city with as much influence as Toronto (ranked as an Alpha global city) the only other comparable cities are Chicago and Moscow. Perhaps NYC. In the global scheme of things, Toronto is one of the snowiest major cities in the world.