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NEG NAO

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I think you have to be north of I-84 to really have a shot here, but I agree that some slushy accums are possible for the south shore of CT and the White Plains area before a quick switch to rain or junk. Anyone on Long Island and the NYC area is out of it. The real accumulations won't be until you're well east of Hartford if the NAM is to be believed. Boston might get more from the storm than even the Berkshires or Litchfield Hills.

and with a mid-day start time, that won't help us.

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Yeah that is crazy. I'd much rather take our current situation...no chance of anything whatsoever...than think you're in line for something big a day or two out and have it not happen.

Like I said last night, that has to be the worst heartbreak area. Just yesterday morning they looked set for a major event. They might be almost all rain or slop now. Places like St. Cloud and Duluth look to get annihilated.

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what exact area are you talking about? obviously if the thump is frozen it is wrong

Both the MM5 and the NMM keep the 850 line south of NYC through hour 33. The Euro is pretty close to that as well.

The surface temps are the issue, but if the precip comes in heavy, like the NMM shows, its possible to get slushy accumulations on non-paved surfaces. The MM5 also brings in the precip heavy before hour 33.

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what exact area are you talking about? obviously if the thump is frozen it is wrong

what are you talking about?

Nothing today has changed the general idea that the precip comes in pretty heavy and the 850's across the entire area are below freezing to start the event with areas just to the north of the city staying below 0 for more of it. The other side is that there is plenty of room to wetbulb down to surface temps that will support slushy accumulations away from the beaches and UHI of nyc and further n and w I can easily see accumulations on all surfaces.

The euro, gfs, ukmet, NMM, and Suny MM5 are all pretty close to bringing a more significant frozen even to the city itself.

This doesnt mean accumulating snow, but I could see a prolonged period of sleet for the city after an initial burst of heavy wet snow.

Further n and w I still see 2-4+ starting from the north bronx on n and w into hudson valley at CT with Danbury on North possibly getting to the magic 6 inch mark.

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what are you talking about?

Nothing today has changed the general idea that the precip comes in pretty heavy and the 850's across the entire area are below freezing to start the event with areas just to the north of the city staying below 0 for more of it. The other side is that there is plenty of room to wetbulb down to surface temps that will support slushy accumulations away from the beaches and UHI of nyc and further n and w I can easily see accumulations on all surfaces.

The euro, gfs, ukmet, NMM, and Suny MM5 are all pretty close to bringing a more significant frozen even to the city itself.

This doesnt mean accumulating snow, but I could see a prolonged period of sleet for the city after an initial burst of heavy wet snow.

Further n and w I still see 2-4+ starting from the north bronx on n and w into hudson valley at CT with Danbury on North possibly getting to the magic 6 inch mark.

Even in the UHI if it comes down heavy it would quickly accumulate.

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post-39-0-18708600-1330457959.gif

NAM sounding at 18Z tomorrow. That may be mixed at the surface, or even pure wet snow, but its gonna have real trouble sticking.

post-39-0-04499300-1330458015.gif

GFS sounding same time. I'd bet more on the NAM thermal profiles, but just showing that the GFS is even warmer.

post-39-0-64176200-1330458076.gif

NAM sounding at 21Z tomorrow. Just to show how quickly it warms.

The typical bias is colder surface, warmer aloft. Of course that makes things REALLY tricky because colder surface might mean snowier but warmer aloft might mean sleetier.

Right now in the city, I'd bet on a brief bit of snow, then some sleet perhaps accumulating a light coating before switching over to rain by mid afternoon.

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NAM sounding at 18Z tomorrow. That may be mixed at the surface, or even pure wet snow, but its gonna have real trouble sticking.

GFS sounding same time. I'd bet more on the NAM thermal profiles, but just showing that the GFS is even warmer.

NAM sounding at 21Z tomorrow. Just to show how quickly it warms.

The typical bias is colder surface, warmer aloft. Of course that makes things REALLY tricky because colder surface might mean snowier but warmer aloft might mean sleetier.

Right now in the city, I'd bet on a brief bit of snow, then some sleet perhaps accumulating a light coating before switching over to rain by mid afternoon.

Euro and Ukie appear colder then both the NAM and GFS. Do you have soundings for them?

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what are you talking about?

Nothing today has changed the general idea that the precip comes in pretty heavy and the 850's across the entire area are below freezing to start the event with areas just to the north of the city staying below 0 for more of it. The other side is that there is plenty of room to wetbulb down to surface temps that will support slushy accumulations away from the beaches and UHI of nyc and further n and w I can easily see accumulations on all surfaces.

The euro, gfs, ukmet, NMM, and Suny MM5 are all pretty close to bringing a more significant frozen even to the city itself.

This doesnt mean accumulating snow, but I could see a prolonged period of sleet for the city after an initial burst of heavy wet snow.

Further n and w I still see 2-4+ starting from the north bronx on n and w into hudson valley at CT with Danbury on North possibly getting to the magic 6 inch mark.

I just don't see this being a big deal anywhere near the city. The precip arriving at mid day, east flow off the water, and rapidly retreating cold air dome really make this a tough sell for any kind of big impact here. 38-40 degrees won't allow much if any sticking, even heavy. If the snow comes in as a wall, I could see a surprise or two happening, but it's hard for me to see this as being more than just some slush up to around White Plains. Out toward Danbury, there most likely exists more potential for real accums.

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I just don't see this being a big deal anywhere near the city. The precip arriving at mid day, east flow off the water, and rapidly retreating cold air dome really make this a tough sell for any kind of big impact here. 38-40 degrees won't allow much if any sticking, even heavy. If the snow comes in as a wall, I could see a surprise or two happening, but it's hard for me to see this as being more than just some slush up to around White Plains. Out toward Danbury, there most likely exists more potential for real accums.

what part of my post says "BIG DEAL"? Where did I say that there would be big impact? I am sorry you live on the beach and need a HECS to feel satisfied, but in a winter like this, getting any kind of winter weather is a win. Stop projecting. The city could easily see 3 hours of frozen precip with some slushy accumulations to start, especially away from the beaches and mid-town.

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Euro and Ukie appear colder then both the NAM and GFS. Do you have soundings for them?

EC isn't colder than the GFS where it counts... the BL. Its essentially identical as the GFS from 925 mb down to the surface. I can't show the sounding on AmericanWx so you'll just have to take my word for it. The EC is colder at 850 but it doesn't really matter.

Here's the UKMET... its a lot like the EC sounding actually. Notice its still got a toasty BL.

post-39-0-34987200-1330459659.gif

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