ORH_wxman Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 http://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/abs/10.1175/JHM-D-11-040.1 Yet another death cry from the CAGW crowd that California is going into a huge drought because of decreasing snowfall (for water runoff) in the Sierras proven false. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryM Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 http://journals.amet.../JHM-D-11-040.1 Yet another death cry from the CAGW crowd that California is going into a huge drought because of decreasing snowfall (for water runoff) in the Sierras proven false. I can't seem to get past the abstract without subscription. While I'm more familiar with the eastern slope than the western, I would have assumed them to be more or less in synchronicity. Do you know what area he is referencing when he says "the main snowfall region of the western slope of the Sierra Nevada Mountains."? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeatherRusty Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 http://journals.amet.../JHM-D-11-040.1 Yet another death cry from the CAGW crowd that California is going into a huge drought because of decreasing snowfall (for water runoff) in the Sierras proven false. Are you trying to imply that as climate changes there will be no difference in snowfall patterns by region? If prevailing winds shift a bit in direction no change? If average winter temp rises no change? If upper air patterns and jet streams shift no change? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeatherRusty Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Changes in Intense Precipitation over the Central United States SEE AMS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryM Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Who paid you to make this post? You really do have a problem staying on thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vergent Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 http://journals.amet.../JHM-D-11-040.1 Yet another death cry from the CAGW crowd that California is going into a huge drought because of decreasing snowfall (for water runoff) in the Sierras proven false. The western slope of the Sierra Nevada is exposed to California's central valley, which used to be desert from its southern tip to Sacramento. This land is now mostly irrigated farmland. The reservoirs are quite low. I've seen them quite recently. If John R. Christy is not a denialist, why does pick an environment that is so incredably man altered, and try to come to climate conclusions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonger Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 No decrease in the midwest either. 2001-2010 was the most snow ever in Detroit. All other locations right on pace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryM Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 No decrease in the midwest either. 2001-2010 was the most snow ever in Detroit. All other locations right on pace. http://www.americanw...-82-to-2010-11/ I'm not that far from you, and, while I'm aware that it's weather - I wish I'd get some snow! Had an inch or so on the 14th, but it's long gone - this ain't right. How are you doing this year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonger Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 I'm not that far from you, and, while I'm aware that it's weather - I wish I'd get some snow! Had an inch or so on the 14th, but it's long gone - this ain't right. How are you doing this year? North America is the only populated area in the northern hemisphere to be warm right now. Everyone is down on snow this year in the US and Canada. Thankfully its not the 1940's where there wasnt much of anything of snow for an entire decade. We just came out of the snowiest decade since we began recording weather. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryM Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 North America is the only populated area in the northern hemisphere to be warm right now. Everyone is down on snow this year in the US and Canada. Thankfully its not the 1940's where there wasnt much of anything of snow for an entire decade. We just came out of the snowiest decade since we began recording weather. Thankfully I missed half of that. Still have old B&W prints of Xmas's though - lots of snow here then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeastFromTheEast Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Thankfully I missed half of that. Still have old B&W prints of Xmas's though - lots of snow here then. No Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryM Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 [/b] No yea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonger Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 yea I don't remember snowless years either... I remember the storms only. Who remembers the boring days of our lives... I remember the exciting ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonger Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Toronto just emerged from a very down decade while every other location appears to be well above 100 year averages.... Sometimes its just quirky bad luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryM Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Could be - I think we probably talked this one out over on the other thread. And I think I'm the one who brought it up off topic. Sorry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dabize Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 http://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/abs/10.1175/JHM-D-11-040.1 Yet another death cry from the CAGW crowd that California is going into a huge drought because of decreasing snowfall (for water runoff) in the Sierras proven false. Proven false?? Good Lord ...... where to start? You're a trained, practicing and (apparently) competent met. You know perfectly well that there are going to be ups and downs in the short term in re the Sierra snow budget. However the progressive worldwide loss of glacier volume indicates that rising snow levels will inexorably affect the Sierras in the foreseeable future. Sooner or later in this century, it will happen. If your point is that it is not happening NOW, this is a trivial manifestation of short term variability. If your point is that warming will not necessarily drive a reduction in precipitation, then they'd better start condemning Hetch-Hetchy again and add Yosemite to it for the construction of more reservoirs. Doesn't sound like fun to me. This "proof" is not much better than asserting that cold European winters due to an anomalously open Barentz/Kara will be a permanent feature, and "prove" that AGW is a crock. Absolutely "Day After Tomorrow" material. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORH_wxman Posted February 21, 2012 Author Share Posted February 21, 2012 Proven false?? Good Lord ...... where to start? You're a trained, practicing and (apparently) competent met. You know perfectly well that there are going to be ups and downs in the short term in re the Sierra snow budget. However the progressive worldwide loss of glacier volume indicates that rising snow levels will inexorably affect the Sierras in the foreseeable future. Sooner or later in this century, it will happen. If your point is that it is not happening NOW, this is a trivial manifestation of short term variability. If your point is that warming will not necessarily drive a reduction in precipitation, then they'd better start condemning Hetch-Hetchy again and add Yosemite to it for the construction of more reservoirs. Doesn't sound like fun to me. This "proof" is not much better than asserting that cold European winters due to an anomalously open Barentz/Kara will be a permanent feature, and "prove" that AGW is a crock. Absolutely "Day After Tomorrow" material. We've been hearing for years in the media how the snowfall has reduced in the Sierras (most likely people jumping to conclusons about natural vairation)...this paper showed that indeed there has been no discernable trend in Sierra Nevada snowfall....if you want to speculate on what it will be in 2100, be my guest but that wasn't the point of the paper or the post. CAGW proponents often try and find something out of the ordnary going on right now and blame it on AGW...with little care to natural variation...because if there's already an alarming trend going on now, then its much easier to claim how much worse it will be in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aslkahuna Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Drought, Floods, and Wildfires-the big three occurrences in CA (though the State is more famous for Earthquakes). They have been going on for millenia so it would be really hard to prove one way or another their relationship to Climate Change. As point in fact, CA is entering a drought right now thanks in part at least to the ENSO cold phase in progress. Another fact, although the word Desert gets thrown around a lot when talking about CA, it's important to note that the maximum annual rainfall for a region to be classified as desert is 30 cm (12 inches)/year or less. Above that, a region is more correctly classified as an arid to semi-arid grassland (Savannah or Steppe depending upon temperature. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dabize Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 We've been hearing for years in the media how the snowfall has reduced in the Sierras (most likely people jumping to conclusons about natural vairation)...this paper showed that indeed there has been no discernable trend in Sierra Nevada snowfall....if you want to speculate on what it will be in 2100, be my guest but that wasn't the point of the paper or the post. CAGW proponents often try and find something out of the ordnary going on right now and blame it on AGW...with little care to natural variation...because if there's already an alarming trend going on now, then its much easier to claim how much worse it will be in the future. I think that is because the whole area is very water-competitive already and depends on the Sierras for most of the water it does get. So the prospect of AGW, which inevitably carries with it a reduction of the Sierra snowpack (the timetable of this is admittedly quite uncertain), has to be worrisome for those looking at the long term future of the area (50 from now or so). Not unreasonable if you have kids and want them to live in CA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vergent Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 The reservoirs are way down, Why? Invisible snow? http://cdec.water.ca...aphsMain.action When theory and observation disagree = bad theory. BTW they are rationing irrigation water in the central valley, and the right wing farmers are up in arms. Think they mabe paid him to get these results to confuse the issues? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SVT450R Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 The reservoirs are way down, Why? Invisible snow? http://cdec.water.ca...aphsMain.action When theory and observation disagree = bad theory. BTW they are rationing irrigation water in the central valley, and the right wing farmers are up in arms. Think they mabe paid him to get these results to confuse the issues? They are not way down why not try reading what you posted before making an assumption like that. That map shows all of them within or above there historical averages and only a couple below. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORH_wxman Posted February 22, 2012 Author Share Posted February 22, 2012 They are not way down why not try reading what you posted before making an assumption like that. That map shows all of them within or above there historical averages and only a couple below. Also posting a 2012 map is completely useless anyway...if he read the peer reviewed paper he would see how variable Sierra Nevada snowfall is and this season is a low snowfall season after last year was a complete blockbuster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aslkahuna Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Farmers and the State and cities have been fighting over water rights and nd water allocations for the past Century so that's nothing new. Truth is that Southern CA is a terrible waster of water especially all of those Gof Courses in the Desert that use ground water instead of treated effluent as they are required to do here in SE AZ. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryM Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Farmers and the State and cities have been fighting over water rights and nd water allocations for the past Century so that's nothing new. Truth is that Southern CA is a terrible waster of water especially all of those Gof Courses in the Desert that use ground water instead of treated effluent as they are required to do here in SE AZ. Steve I know Cal golf courses have been using effluent from at least as far back as the mid 60s. Nevada however does no such thing. Cal. also requires water re-circulation for cooling circuits, but not Nevada. Water rights have been a problem ever since before we stole the 50% that was supposed to be Mexico's. But the area where I used to dock my sailboat at Lake Mead is now about 5 miles from the nearest water. A situation that has only recently occurred (although I understand that there has been some improvement in the last couple of years.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aslkahuna Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Not all of the CA golf courses. Ah yes, Nevada-especially Las Vegas-water conservation-whats that? Sierra Vista does Tucson one better on the treated effluent they send it into recharge ponds in order to recharge the aquifer of the San Pedro and at the same time the recharge ponds are used to make a wetlands environment for migrating birds. Unfortunately, the developers mainly south of town follow the Phoenix example and Phoenix is not only a blight on the desert floor but their water usage is an abortion. I swear that city has more canals than Venice! Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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