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2/19/12 Event Discussion - Only Reference to OP Euro/GFS allowed


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0.25 is like 10-15 mi south...this is a pretty big shift...not sure if this is still a larger adjustment or part of the standard late shift though I guess it is splitting hairs and doesnt matter...it shifted....

yeah but .5" is still a solid ways south. im not sure i'd necessarily expect it to keep shifting north nonstop but i think it's worth considering at least in the final 24 more than today. good if it comes late because maybe we can get it mainly after dark but tomorrow's toasty and mos numbers are quite high sunday now too even if you assume they're warm. i'd want at least .4" (~2") or so qpf to make it notable in the city at least.

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If it is a 75 to 100 mile shift, then yeah, that is pretty substantial, especially for the Euro.

it's decent but im not sure i'd characterize it as a 100 mile shift. the track is similar but a bit nw.. one of the main differences is the old qpf pattern sorta had a dip south east of the apps that i think is part of the pattern people said felt "unnatural" with the way the precip moves. that's more or less filled in and even bubbled north a bit. in many ways its more a re-orientation of the ccb type precip than anything.

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the 0.25" contour at 12z bisected Kings Dominion.....It now bisects Springfield Mall....That is a huge shift

i dunno where those places are. as noted in prior track did not shift majorly. in a lot of ways this just looks like a more typical precip shield than prior runs. so.. im not sure the actual shift is as big as perceived even if this area does better.

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that only really tells part of the story... but we can seesaw every run as needed

i think my description is pretty accurate as to why if not as to how huge a shift

yes..it depends what you mean by shift....Part may be track...part may be precip field expands for whatever reason or something like that....whatever the case, the precip shield generally expanded 50-75 mi at least if not more....

At 12Z measurable precip just reached DC line....at 0z it is now north of Philly....that is a big shift...I am not trying to analyze it or say it is correct...But the model shifted in a significant fashion

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yes..it depends what you mean by shift....Part may be track...part may be precip field expands for whatever reason or something like that....whatever the case, the precip shield generally expanded 50-75 mi at least if not more....

At 12Z measurable precip just reached DC line....at 0z it is now north of Philly....that is a big shift...I am not trying to analyze it or say it is correct...But the model shifted in a significant fashion

i think as usual we're both arguing similar but from different angles. running them side by side 0z mainly looks like a more typical shield on the nw side of the low. i think there is a little less confluence as well which allows the low to tuck in a bit further nw. i think it's mainly within a margin of acceptable run to run tho. i didn't jump ship tonight.. i think cwg's first map might be too low.. but had no really compelling reason to say that. i did argue to only drop spi 1 rather than 2. ;)

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i think as usual we're both arguing similar but from different angles. running them side by side 0z mainly looks like a more typical shield on the nw side of the low. i think there is a little less confluence as well which allows the low to tuck in a bit further nw. i think it's mainly within a margin of acceptable run to run tho. i didn't jump ship tonight.. i think cwg's first map might be too low.. but had no really compelling reason to say that. i did argue to only drop spi 1 rather than 2. ;)

I dont have good upper level maps....the surface low maybe shifted 25-50 mi north tops....probably closer to 25-35

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I dont have good upper level maps....the surface low maybe shifted 25-50 mi north tops....probably closer to 25-35

it's definitely not a situation to give up hope completely. the gfs is "loaded" to drop more than it does as well.. probably not a lot, but if anything is up i'd wonder about the evolution of precip east of the mtns a bit. im not 100% sure i buy it will go from ne to due east. i think we probably can end up in the .2-.4" range at DCA.. would lean low given where we are guidance wise. i just don't have very much confidence that amounts to a lot of accumulation. this storm seems like it will be very dependent on any banding and/or elevation to get totals.

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