OceanStWx Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Trimming a million here or there from the NWS is akin to me trying to reign in my budget by slashing my monthly $20 haircut. This is perhaps my biggest problem with the proposed cuts. It a cut for the sake of cutting, it doesn't actually fix a problem. And as many have described, actually creates problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isohume Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Don't bother with blue sky. He's a known NWS hating troll. Any chance he gets he pops in to say why the NWS should be drastically cut back. It's quite repetitive and he/she's not receptive to open discussion. Perhaps blue sky works for one of the private companies that is forced to work out of one central office, and feels everyone else in this business ought to do the same. I guess you're right. lolz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rainshadow Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 I guess you're right. lolz Yeah Snowman21 is right, it looks as if he/she just cuts and pastes the same "talking points" bullets every time this discussion comes up. Well at least the AFOS bullet was removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue sky Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Speaking from experience as a end-user of NWS aviation data, their products are essential for efficient and safe operations of thousands of aircraft daily. In fact, the legality of flight depends upon numbers published in METARs, TAFs, SIGMETs and winds aloft (can I begin the approach, do I have enough fuel for this flight, will the crosswind be too strong, will I need one alternative airport for arrival, or two alternate airports?, etc.). None of these questions could even be answered without NWS forecasts. I can't imagine the financial benefit the NWS gives to corporate aviation and airlines, let alone the cost savings of safety (if there is even a way to put a dollar amount on life). Literally, it must be in the billions of dollars. NWS investment is probably one of the best investments this country has made. Far better than bailing out banks or supporting the military-industrial complex (in my opinion, only). With that said, there are companies that are successful in providing aviation related weather data from a centralized location. Universal Weather & Aviation at Houston-Hobby comes to mind. The company I work for has dispatchers and meteorologists at one-location in the country and they quickly learn the quirks of the weather in certain places even though they may be thousands of miles away. A lot of aviation forecasts, like area forecasts, convective sigmets, AIRMETs and winds aloft data all come from Kansas City, MO. I personally believe that numerical modeling, ensemble forecasting and grids have come such a long way in the last 20 years that forecasters are going to be fighting for their careers as the future progresses. I thought I read a paper that indicated ensemble MOS output can produce a similar result to a human forecaster most of the time*. Of course technology isn't good enough to remove the human all together, but unfortunately for humans technology gets better with time. Can TAFs be produced from a centralized location? I'm thinking they probably can. Can they be produced in a semi-automated fashion, or even totally automated fashion during periods of tranquil weather? I'm thinking they can too. Similar to the NWS modernization over a decade ago, WSOs closed down at airports as technology allowed pilots to get weather information via computer. Flight Service Stations were consolidated and privatized, at first people were up in arms, but technology has greatly reduced the need of the human disseminating weather information. XM and in-flight WIFI makes the human irrelevant for disseminating weather information. , for better or worse. That iPod in our pockets is a double edged sword. It is very ironic that Ted Kaczynski had a few valid points, we are slowly becoming slaves to technology and computers which in turn will make most of us irrelevant. "I believe consolidation and reductions are the future." Me too. The fact that I have this opinion and inject it into discussions.... I do not start, offends, some posters. Information technology is advancing at an amazing rate. We have 122 forecasting officies. Do we need 122 officies? Like private businesses... can't some forecasters work from home? Maybe we should invest in bandwith..not buildings. Technology..not bureacracy. Some of the responses here are interesting. Others are from the union playbook where you can't cut a job. I support a government weather service. Some poster said I hate the NWS. Provide links for that or STFU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isohume Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Some poster said I hate the NWS. Provide links for that or STFU. I'm just waiting for your cost/benefit ratio breakdown. I could care less what you think of the NWS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MGorse Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 "I believe consolidation and reductions are the future." Me too. The fact that I have this opinion and inject it into discussions.... I do not start, offends, some posters. Information technology is advancing at an amazing rate. We have 122 forecasting officies. Do we need 122 officies? Like private businesses... can't some forecasters work from home? Maybe we should invest in bandwith..not buildings. Technology..not bureacracy. Some of the responses here are interesting. Others are from the union playbook where you can't cut a job. I support a government weather service. Some poster said I hate the NWS. Provide links for that or STFU. What private weather businesses have forecasters working from home? I am sure NWS forecasters would love to have an entire AWIPS workstation in their living room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue sky Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 I'm just waiting for your cost/benefit ratio breakdown. I could care less what you think of the NWS. If the weather service wants to give a contract to do that....Fine. Let's reverse the question...The current structure of the NWS can not be improved? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isohume Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 If the weather service wants to give a contract to do that....Fine. Let's reverse the question...The current structure of the NWS can not be improved? Nice spin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue sky Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 What private weather businesses have forecasters working from home? I am sure NWS forecasters would love to have an entire AWIPS workstation in their living room. I am not here supporting private weathe forcasters. Weather forcasting is information. Why not have AN entire AWIPS workstation at home? Get rid of the Bosses! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isohume Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 What private weather businesses have forecasters working from home? I am sure NWS forecasters would love to have an entire AWIPS workstation in their living room. Ha really...imagine the security issues as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue sky Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Nice spin. This is a discusion about improving the cost effectiveness of the NWS. Any ideas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue sky Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Ha really...imagine the security issues as well. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue sky Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Ha really...imagine the security issues as well. What security issues? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MGorse Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 I am not here supporting private weathe forcasters. Weather forcasting is information. Why not have AN entire AWIPS workstation at home? Get rid of the Bosses! Well, earlier you posted this: Like private businesses... can't some forecasters work from home? I thought you might have some insight from the private sector side. Having an entire AWIPS workstation at home would be tough, not to mention the security issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isohume Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 This is a discusion about improving the cost effectiveness of the NWS. Any ideas? No it's a discussion about the new proposed NWS budget and the possible IT loss issue. I'm curious about your ideas tho, specifically I'd like to see your data concerning the cost/benefit ratio of NWS non-forecasting programs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue sky Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 I do not understand the security issuses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isohume Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 What security issues? Huh? Government computers run through the Internet? Yeah I couldn't imagine any problems with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue sky Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Well, earlier you posted this: I thought you might have some insight from the private sector side. Having an entire AWIPS workstation at home would be tough, not to mention the security issues. I do not know if private weather works from home. i was talking about private business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MGorse Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 I do not understand the security issuses. Umm, government computers being used at home via internet connections to start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue sky Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Huh? Government computers run through the Internet? Yeah I couldn't imagine any problems with that. So your saying..that it is impossible for NWS forcasters to work from home? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MGorse Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 I do not know if private weather works from home. i was talking about private business. So you are trying to compare the way a private non-weather business operates to the operations of the NWS. Basically comparing apples and oranges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isohume Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 So your saying..that it is impossible for NWS forcasters to work from home? No, I'm saying for specific jobs (warnings, fire wx, aviation, etc) there would be too much of a security issue from home via the Internet. I could see NWS employees taking supernumerary (non-operational) shifts at home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue sky Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 So you are trying to compare the way a private non-weather business operates to the operations of the NWS. Basically comparing apples and oranges. Why can't you guys forecast from home? What security issues? Why can't the management transmit data to your house? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isohume Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 This is a discusion about improving the cost effectiveness of the NWS. Any ideas? I already gave my opinion and ideas on what I feel could make the NWS more efficient. I'm curious about your ideas tho, specifically I'd like to see your data concerning the cost/benefit ratio of NWS non-forecasting programs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isohume Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Why can't you guys forecast from home? What security issues? Why can't the management transmit data to your house? Hackers? Last I checked the Internet is not very secure. We occasionally get low-end hacked through the gov firewall. A hacker could mess up a forecast product/warning and someone could get injured or die because of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MGorse Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Why can't you guys forecast from home? What security issues? Why can't the management transmit data to your house? Unreal! Have you been to an NWS office and seen the setup and operations? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MGorse Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 I'm curious about your ideas tho, specifically I'd like to see your data concerning the cost/benefit ratio of NWS non-forecasting programs. Give him time, he needs to crunch the numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue sky Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 I already gave my opinion and ideas on what I feel could make the NWS more efficient. I'm curious about your ideas tho, specifically I'd like to see your data concerning the cost/benefit ratio of NWS non-forecasting programs. Please list the non forcasting programs that you think are crucial given a 15 trillion debt. Where 40% of every government dolar is spent on interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isohume Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Please list the non forcasting programs that you think are crucial given a 15 trillion debt. Where 40% of every government dolar is spent on interest. Please view my previous post listing them. I'm not doing all the work for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue sky Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Unreal! Have you been to an NWS office and seen the setup and operations? Earlier in this thread a NWS empolyee said that his cell phone had more bandwith than his office. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.