Jump to content
  • Member Statistics

    17,587
    Total Members
    7,904
    Most Online
    LopezElliana
    Newest Member
    LopezElliana
    Joined

2/19 East Coast Winter Storm Threat


OKpowdah

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 1.1k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Dude, you are making this out to be waaay bigger than it is. There's no conspiracy.

There are about 47 billion s/w's interacting with each other so subtle shifts in the treatment of any one will have larger ramifications down the road. The differences between the Euro and the GFS are clear. So now we just need to determine which one is correct.

The GFS currently lacks support. That's the primary determining factor at this time IMO.

UK is closer to the GFS than the Euro, though.

So there appears to be a UK/GFS camp and a GGEM/Euro camp for global models. What will be interesting is the 12z Euro ensembles. If they start to sniff out a more exciting solution that will be something to take note of.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Probably worth noting the feature the Euro doesn't show at 12z Thursday coming down a few hundred miles north of the ND border is very evident both on the water vapor and the RUC. To me that's one of the most critical issues as a difference between the two models, Euro/GGEM just seem to not have it at all, and it certainly appears like it's a legitimate feature.

Odd.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here's the 24 hour Euro contour vs the GFs white lines.

You can see what may well be a Euro error north of ND. That has ramifications that magnifiy going forward.

The feature does appear to be legit, pretty much where the 12z 6h GFS placed it...RUC is similar and would have a solution very much like the GFS come later tonight. Euro pretty much ignores that feature entirely.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

These models are probably giving alot of people blue balls

Probably worth noting the feature the Euro doesn't show at 12z Thursday coming down a few hundred miles north of the ND border is very evident both on the water vapor and the RUC. To me that's one of the most critical issues as a difference between the two models, Euro/GGEM just seem to not have it at all, and it certainly appears like it's a legitimate feature.

Odd.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

These models are probably giving alot of people blue balls

Either NCEP scored a coup with the injection of PAC data or not.

I think that feature is real, being modeled poorly by the Euro/GGEM. Does it make a huge difference? Maybe not, but it's interesting.

Be pretty unusual to see a fairly dramatic error at 12 and 24 hours on any model. I'm curious to see the more detailed 500mb Euro charts later.

sat_wv_hem_loop.gif

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here's the 24 hour Euro contour vs the GFs white lines.

You can see what may well be a Euro error north of ND. That has ramifications that magnifiy going forward.

The feature does appear to be legit, pretty much where the 12z 6h GFS placed it...RUC is similar and would have a solution very much like the GFS come later tonight. Euro pretty much ignores that feature entirely.

Go to wunderground and toggle the 500mb maps at 24hrs between the Euro and GFS. You'll see that there is a vort there on both, and it may just be a matter of the contour spacing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Euro thru 108 is a complete whifferino for NE.

Keeps decent QPF out of the Mid Atlantic, too.

Northern stream wave is almost non-existent and steering flow aloft too zonal for this baby to turn the corner. Also, as mentioned by others, LP out west is also not helping matters.

Not to be a storm rabble rouser but ...

The ECMWF has a tendency to dig waves too far SW over western N/A, and in doing so, tends to be slower at kicking those features out.

*IF* *IF* *IF* that bias is taking place here, that could explain - in part - why there is less stream interaction (phasing) in this solution.

The reason being ..for those less in the know ... part of the reason why these GFS (now UKMET) solutions depict more phasing is because they have more timely ejection out of the SW of the mid and U/A feature. As it gets kicked east and enters the geopotential medium nearing the lower Plains, it induces the northern stream down in latitude because by lowering heights south the entire medium is weakened.

From what I can see the northern stream in this Euro run does contain impulse(s) material that would in any other circumstance be similar, but those merely don't descend in latitude. Again, it appears to me to be subtle timing issues over when the SW feature gets the boot into the downstream - which is right. Heck if I know.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Go to wunderground and toggle the 500mb maps at 24hrs between the Euro and GFS. You'll see that there is a vort there on both, and it may just be a matter of the contour spacing.

Thanks, looking it appears the Euro is considerably faster with the additional energy coming onshore in BC by morning. So in addition the Euro has less ridging between that feature and the one we're talking about...GFS closing off the contours and is also stronger beyond 30 or so hours. The Euro just kind of keeps an elongated less impressive system skirting along the northern states.

Euro is fastest with the energy into BC, NAM in the middle, than the GFS the slowest w the UK.

Won't be hard to see which camp is wrong if we don't already know.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not to be a storm rabble rouser but ...

The ECMWF has a tendency to dig waves too far SW over western N/A, and in doing so, tends to be slower at kicking those features out.

*IF* *IF* *IF* that bias is taking place here, that could explain - in part - why there is less stream interaction (phasing) in this solution.

The reason being ..for those less in the know ... part of the reason why these GFS (now UKMET) solutions depict more phasing is because they have more timely ejection out of the SW of the mid and U/A feature. As it gets kicked east and enters the geopotential medium nearing the lower Plains, it induces the northern stream down in latitude because by lowering heights south the entire medium is weakened.

From what I can see the northern stream in this Euro run does contain impulse(s) material that would in any other circumstance be similar, but those merely don't descend in latitude. Again, it appears to me to be subtle timing issues over when the SW feature gets the boot into the downstream - which is right. Heck if I know.

actually ...while this could all certainly be true, upon closer look - no.

this is just a mess people. The GFS is actually stronger with the southern stream overall than the ECM, which is odd that these two models flipped that script - their biases are usually the other way around with the southern stream.

From SW Canada to Ontario I don't see very much similarity in the handling of ANY features for that matter.

At this point, I think it is more alarming that both the UKMET and GFS came together than it is the Euro is off - kind of a maverick compared. The Euro flubbed a couple of systems in as near as 48 hours earlier when that other pattern - sure, new pattern now but eh... Point being, the model is not that infallable.

The other problem is the fact that it is not supposed to (apparently ) snow this year at least excuse. If it does, you almost get the feeling that great crime in nature has taken place and that the world must be ending :axe:

NCEP said yesterday that they believe this would probably be a short range resolution requirement and I don't think that has changed. The flow is fuzzy logical right now with all these perturbances rolling around. We got bad intializations on top of it ?

whatever -

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...