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2/19 East Coast Winter Storm Threat


OKpowdah

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Taking the trend of the NAM is just as bad as the forecast imo. A trend that far out in a meso scale model, means very little imo.

Then fine, it shouldn't be mentioned at all lol. But as long as it was being discussed, it should be noted where it was yesterday

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Taking the trend of the NAM is just as bad as the forecast imo. A trend that far out in a meso scale model, means very little imo.

and especially given that models don't really trend anyway.

I understand that people are discussing the NAM and what it's doing...and that's fine. But how much does it mean? meh. It only trended because it was likely so far off of reality lol.

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Eh ..about that... I agree in principle, however, the old adage about not knocking consistency works for reason. The trouble is, seasonal persistence usually has a reason for taking place; we just don't know why/what that is. In this case, an incredible penache for no events - it's literally that simple. It's not a matter of no snow, per se; or at least it shouldn't be looked upon in that way.

It's really quite literally this simple: how can it snow if there is nothing going on?

That's the problem. Can't hammer it any more clearly, there are no events.

That's the seasonal persistence, and for that, this "Because of this winter" does carry some merit whether we like to admit that or not. Maybe it is deconstructive wave interference being favored. Maybe it is dumbs stupid (I doubt it) luck - who knows. Because of this winter not producing any events being too persistent to be ignored, it's a far more valuable question in my mind to ask why that is, rather than dismissing (not that you are of course...).

I don't like it, no. But I am also a realist. I'm just trying to figure out why the models can't latch onto anything with continuity, and it's working out that nothing then goes on to take place. It'd be cool as candy if that 00z GFS came back though.

Well I've actually preached that to a point, because the overall pattern does cause people to say that. In other words, a persistent pattern can cause a statement like that...seemingly thrown out there without any science behind it, to be true. Truth is, there is a little science to that.

But, I don't think the pattern is the same now, as it was in December and January...especially this weekend coming up. Also, lets not forget that we have these storms every winter, and every winter we see models show us a day 5 bomb, only for it not to happen. So while we may think "oh this winter..." if this fails to occur, fact of the matter is that we have this happen to us every winter.

I do understand the frustration though, of this winter.

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and especially given that models don't really trend anyway.

I understand that people are discussing the NAM and what it's doing...and that's fine. But how much does it mean? meh. It only trended because it was likely so far off of reality lol.

That's definitely debatable. Considering the assimilation process employed that retains the previous short term forecast, there will always be "ghosts of forecasts past" embedded in the latest run, which then decay with each run in the future. So there is likely to be some inherent "trend" depicted in the model forecasts.

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Strongly disagree. The trend matters waaay more than the forecast itself, especially this far out on the NAM. I don't give two hoots if the NAM is closer to the Euro or the GFS right now ...because who the heck takes the NAM as a forecast at hr84. The trend is something we can take away from it though.

Considering that just yesterday it was holding back the southern energy sooo long that it would eventually phase with that west coast kicker, as I said, for it to correct itself, it would likely produce some intermediate solutions where the southern energy is getting closer, but still significantly lags the northern stream s/w's. That's where we are now.

Sam,

I kind of understand where they are coming from, but if it is any help, here is the way I use the NAM.

For impulses the model processes, if they are initialized squarely in the NAM's domain the model can do better. I am not entirely certain how the modelers do this, but when impulses are relayed into the "edge" of the NAM's domain via other products, that could be a problem. The reason is, the NAM (I do know) has different thermodynamic considerations because of its convection/convective initialization schemes - if you take the former and relay those derived events into the latter, you get problems with permutations arising sending ripples down stream via forcing/wave spacing, and so forth.

This could atone for why the NAM has at times worldly different ideas about it 72 hour range compared to the 24-36.

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Well I've actually preached that to a point, because the overall pattern does cause people to say that. In other words, a persistent pattern can cause a statement like that...seemingly thrown out there without any science behind it, to be true. Truth is, there is a little science to that.

But, I don't think the pattern is the same now, as it was in December and January...especially this weekend coming up. Also, lets not forget that we have these storms every winter, and every winter we see models show us a day 5 bomb, only for it not to happen. So while we may think "oh this winter..." if this fails to occur, fact of the matter is that we have this happen to us every winter.

I do understand the frustration though, of this winter.

Persistence is one thing petulance is another. This winter has made me as petulant as I ever have been on the boards, persistent phail does that.

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