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Feb 11/12 Storm Disco II


Baroclinic Zone

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To me anyway the big red flag even on the 18z is the lack of consistency and speed shift towards all the other models indicating it's catching up. Usually that's a dead giveaway it's having some issues. It didn't trend towards a stronger/nw surface low which also is a hint to me that the 12z solution was likely at least partially influenced by some form of feedback...which is what it looked like at the time.

Very dynamic situation and there is one poorly sampled impulse coming across Mexico that may have some role in all of this, but NCEP went the right way in disregarding the NAM for the most part.

nah...but in some respect the 18z run actually had more of a ceiling to be better than the 12z...the 12z just had a nice sharp shortwave in the right position to ring out very heavy precip for 6-12 hours.

Compare the 18z 54 hour 500mb nam to the 12z 60 hour 500mb nam and you can see how much deeper the trough trended.

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Not sure I agree with this...

Season 2011-12: Ray's already flipped a coin tails 49 times, chance Ray gets that 50th tail is 50%.

Season 2012-13: chance Ray flips a coin tails 50 times is 50%^50 = 0.0000000001% or something, you get the point

Yes this makes my point. It can happen 10 years in a row.

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To me anyway the big red flag even on the 18z is the lack of consistency and speed shift towards all the other models indicating it's catching up. Usually that's a dead giveaway it's having some issues. It didn't trend towards a stronger/nw surface low which also is a hint to me that the 12z solution was likely at least partially influenced by some form of feedback...which is what it looked like at the time.

Very dynamic situation and there is one poorly sampled impulse coming across Mexico that may have some role in all of this, but NCEP went the right way in disregarding the NAM for the most part.

perhaps it is having issues in sampling over Mexico, and the southern shortwave is definitely more southeast on the 18Z...

but an important driver here (and i believe this makes the difference from GFS) is the deeper-digging trough and stronger energy rounding the trough that manages to catch the southern shortwave and even prolong the event over eastern SNE...

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nah...but in some respect the 18z run actually had more of a ceiling to be better than the 12z...the 12z just had a nice sharp shortwave in the right position to ring out very heavy precip for 6-12 hours.

Compare the 18z 54 hour 500mb nam to the 12z 60 hour 500mb nam and you can see how much deeper the trough trended.

All I'm saying is it's hard to take a model seriously that couldn't place the key s/w center within 300 miles in a 12 hour forecast vs the 6h 18z.

And it moved towards the others in that regard. I'd disregard both, just like NCEP for now.

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Yes this makes my point. It can happen 10 years in a row.

Ok...

It sounded like you were arguing that Ray's getting the futility record this season (ie flipping a 50th coin tail) has the same chance as Ray's getting the futility record next or any season (ie flipping 50 coin tails next or future season), and this is not correct.

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The fact that the GFS and EURO ensembles are on and or Northwest of their respective ops is a red flag and leads me to believe they are both coming NW. The fact some GGEM ensembles show a 970 bomb shows the potential.

I am also liking a nasty deform band to develop well NW of the low, kinda like helloween. Scott, what's your take on a possible deform band?

I expect the GFS to look something like NAM or maybe even NW of it.. the classic NAM GFS swircheroo

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Meh, this run is demonstrating the typical 18Z cycle vagaries.

I almost wonder if the 00z run will come in with a hum-dinger. Slightly closer to the coast rise in initial s-stream system because ...hey, the west Atlantic height wall might be eroded to liberally - there's that to consider too..

1) the interface beween the Gulf Stream and the cP air is a proverbial volcano throwing warning tremors in this particular set up. The "low" may in fact wind up (no pun intended...) favoring that axis instead of the seaward position as is modeled at this time;

2) that has a way of feeding back into more phasing when that happens because heights will fall by cyclogen physics, anyway, and here we have the nose of the digging N stream precariously knifing into the Del Marva to act potentailly as a right exit jet region to evacuate any UVM associated with any southern stream system that may or may not get caught up in that flow.

A real easy correction would be for the southern stream initial system to end up tracking closer because of those two points, and if that happens ...

There is just soo much to consider here its mind boggling - sufficed it is to say, that's a real real risky set up.

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From the NCEP heavy snow disc as of 358pm today....

.EASTERN NEW ENGLAND/CENTRAL APPALACHIANS...

MODELS SHOW THE DEVELOPMENT OF SFC LOW OFF THE MID ATLANTIC COAST

AND MOVING NORTHEAST OFF THE NEW ENGLAND COAST SAT...REACHING THE

CANADIAN MARITIMES BY SUN MORNING. THE DEVELOPMENT IS COMPLEX

WITH MOST OPERATIONAL MODELS SHOWING A DUAL LOW STRUCTURE AND

DIFFERENCES BETWEEN MORE DEVELOPMENT/CLOSER TO THE COAST WITH THE

NORTHWEST-MOST LOW AND WHETHER THE STRONGER DEVELOPMENT OCCURS

WITH THE SOUTHEAST MOST LOW. THE PHASING OF NORTHERN/SOUTHERN

STREAM SHORTWAVES AND MAGNITUDE OF THE TROUGH COMING OFF THE EAST

COAST WILL HELP DETERMINE WHICH CLUSTER IS MORE CORRECT.

PROBABILITIES FOR 4 AND 8 INCHES ARE SHOWN IN CASE THE 12Z-18Z

NAM/12Z GEFS MEAN IDEAS OF THE STRONGER/CLOSER IN LOW ARE MORE

CORRECT AND MORE SNOW OCCURS ACROSS SOUTHEAST NY/NEW ENGLAND.

PRECIP TYPES REMAIN UNCERTAIN AS INDIVIDUAL SOLUTIONS ALSO SHOW

POTENTIAL FOR MIXED PRECIPITATION TYPES IN EASTERN LONG ISLAND TO

CAPE COD. THE 12Z ECMWF NUDGE OF THE PRIMARY LOW FURTHER OFFSHORE

KEEPS RISKS AS MODERATE FOR NOW.

I can clearly see this is more then what was mentioned several days ago per the models..and someone in New England is gonna get some hefty qpf out of this event...I like the latest NAM and Euro models...HPC is saying hello to New England!!

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