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February 2012 General Discussion


Nic

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I see I unexpectedly stirred up a hornet's nest (or in the vernacular, a meso-cyclone) of comments on my long term post on the GFS showing a pattern change and beaut of a storm at it’s the forefront (not all that unusual). My intent really WAS to get a discussion going on the chances of that happening, thus the tongue-in-check "Oh shame on you GFS, another tease of a big snowstorm for the Great Lakes in la la land! What a deceptive web you weave with your lies?" but with a question mark at the end.

You see, as a upper wind pattern researcher (as early as the late 70s) the challenge to me and other long term weather/climate enthusiast has always been; are the models "lying" in the medium range or longer term projections"? Of course that can be said in the 6-12 h timeframe too, LOL. When I originally put together my season outlook protocol, I started to look for similarities in a wide-range of meteorological parameters to compare. This subsequently evolved down into the monthly, 8-14 and 6-10 day projections. This is nothing new in extended forecast research (teleconnections, pattern recognition, etc etc) but I brought it down to a more local scale /SE Michigan/ beginning in the mid 1990s. In fact, downscaling is now quite popular in the NWS climate courses of which I attended in their infancy and we all gave feedback.

I would like to propose that a separate forum be set aside for “la la land” discussions (or what was “affectionately” known as “Deedlerland” lol…oh yes I got ribbing) at the NWS DTX here on the board. That way, if anyone wants to discuss longer term /week out or further/ upper wind and surface models they can without fear of retribution. :cry:

http://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/data/teledoc/teleintro.shtml

On the present Arctic front forecast for Friday...I'd be watching for decent convection snows (maybe some lake induced T) given the warm lakes...strong thermo dynamics and mid February convective timeframe. :snowwindow:

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I see I unexpectedly stirred up a hornet's nest (or in the vernacular, a meso-cyclone) of comments on my long term post on the GFS showing a pattern change and beaut of a storm at it’s the forefront (not all that unusual). My intent really WAS to get a discussion going on the chances of that happening, thus the tongue-in-check "Oh shame on you GFS, another tease of a big snowstorm for the Great Lakes in la la land! What a deceptive web you weave with your lies?" but with a question mark at the end.

You see, as a upper wind pattern researcher (as early as the late 70s) the challenge to me and other long term weather/climate enthusiast has always been; are the models "lying" in the medium range or longer term projections"? Of course that can be said in the 6-12 h timeframe too, LOL. When I originally put together my season outlook protocol, I started to look for similarities in a wide-range of meteorological parameters to compare. This subsequently evolved down into the monthly, 8-14 and 6-10 day projections. This is nothing new in extended forecast research (teleconnections, pattern recognition, etc etc) but I brought it down to a more local scale /SE Michigan/ beginning in the mid 1990s. In fact, downscaling is now quite popular in the NWS climate courses of which I attended in their infancy and we all gave feedback.

I would like to propose that a separate forum be set aside for “la la land” discussions (or what was “affectionately” known as “Deedlerland” lol…oh yes I got ribbing) at the NWS DTX here on the board. That way, if anyone wants to discuss longer term /week out or further/ upper wind and surface models they can without fear of retribution. :cry:

http://www.cpc.ncep....teleintro.shtml

On the present Arctic front forecast for Friday...I'd be watching for decent convection snows (maybe some lake induced T) given the warm lakes...strong thermo dynamics and mid February convective timeframe. :snowwindow:

I think it would be nice to have a medium range MW/GL discussion thread. They have one in the main forum though it is more east coast bias (not totally). It would be a good place to have tele-connections & pattern discussions. It maybe similar to the main forum thread BUT more focused on the MW & GLs.

When the weather is so boring in the shorter term (next 3-5 days) I think it is natural for weather enthused people to start to discuss pattern changes/storm possibilities in the 7-14 day range.

I like the idea personally.

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I think it would be nice to have a medium range MW/GL discussion thread. They have one in the main forum though it is more east coast bias (not totally). It would be a good place to have tele-connections & pattern discussions. It maybe similar to the main forum thread BUT more focused on the MW & GLs.

When the weather is so boring in the shorter term (next 3-5 days) I think it is natural for weather enthused people to start to discuss pattern changes/storm possibilities in the 7-14 day range.

I like the idea personally.

Good idea I think! :thumbsup:

It would beat having several threads of storms beyond D7 out there.

Organize and consolidate topics.

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I think it would be nice to have a medium range MW/GL discussion thread. They have one in the main forum though it is more east coast bias (not totally). It would be a good place to have tele-connections & pattern discussions. It maybe similar to the main forum thread BUT more focused on the MW & GLs.

However, isn't that technically the purpose the monthly general discussion threads are supposed to serve?

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However, isn't that technically the purpose the monthly general discussion threads are supposed to serve?

The general discussion threads serve so many purposes and at times can be a cluster**** to read.. Nothing wrong with starting some pattern change, med-long range, etc threads to keep things a bit more readable and organized...

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I find these stratus-heavy patterns frustrating. We have been socked in with thick stratus every morning and it frequently last most of the day or all day. At least it looks like we may get into the sun earlier today for a change. :sun:

The models have certainly backed off of the mild/torchish pattern they had been teasing following the late week chill. It would now seem there's at least a chance of something interesting if we can keep some decent cold while also getting some pieces of energy moving out of the west/southwest. Of course we can still get snow well into March, but since I began keeping snow records five years ago our latest 6 inch storm was Feb 17th, 2008. Mid February has very much been the end of our core snow season in recent years, with an average of only 5.6 inches thereafter.

Hawkeye, those have been my obs since I moved to IA also. That brings up a point, it seems that forecasters here have an appalling record at forecasting the stratus/cloud cover. I cannot count how many dozens of days the forecast was "partly or mostly sunny" only to have the cloudy cover hang tough which also greatly affects the temp forecast. Seems that they should really focus on overcoming that flaw. Also history shows many good march snows in the past, maybe this will be the year.

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Racking up the numbers of winter time sunny days. Just a beautiful day out there. Hopeful the sunset will bless the camera.

Why get excited about sunny days in the winter time, when it is so cold outside to do any activity, I am sure you will be complaining when it is cloudy all spring because we burned through all our nice weather when we couldn't use it (winter).

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Stebo-

I love sunny winter days, mostly because my furnace doesn't run even if its 0F outside..while those 32-33F blah days with thick stratus my furnace is kicking on every hour or so (its a loud old Trane piece of junk clunker that needs to be torn out and scrapped). On top of that, mentally it helps. I'd kill myself if it was cloudy everyday (maybe not, but i'd move ASAP to Phoenix or Palm Springs). Plus I have all kinds of plants in my south facing sliding glass door and it helps save on extra lighting.

I've read where solar panels will actually produce more power in cold/clear/snow covered conditions because of the reflection/efficiency gains (cold).

Up above 30F now. Still have a semi covered ground up here. Some yards are totally snow free (south facing).

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Stebo-

I love sunny winter days, mostly because my furnace doesn't run even if its 0F outside..while those 32-33F blah days with thick stratus my furnace is kicking on every hour or so (its a loud old Trane piece of junk clunker that needs to be torn out and scrapped). On top of that, mentally it helps. I'd kill myself if it was cloudy everyday (maybe not, but i'd move ASAP to Phoenix or Palm Springs). Plus I have all kinds of plants in my south facing sliding glass door and it helps save on extra lighting.

I've read where solar panels will actually produce more power in cold/clear/snow covered conditions because of the reflection/efficiency gains (cold).

Up above 30F now. Still have a semi covered ground up here. Some yards are totally snow free (south facing).

I can understand the need for occasional sunny days sure, I am not a grinch lol, But the point I am making is we have had a large number of sunny days when it was cold outside and I'd much rather save them for when its 70-85 instead of 30-45.

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