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January 20-21 2012 Snowstorm OBS & Disco


earthlight

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If the entire column had remained nice and cold then yes, but depending on how far north that mid-level warm layer gets it will have an affect on ratios. Of course, as Trials said, we need the WAA to enhance QPF, we just don't want too much of it.

always a fine line....agree.

i think with .25-.5 qpf, squeezing out 15:1 in the lower 20s is doable. again, as you say...depending how warm the mid level layer gets. even lower 20s at surface doesnt equate to high ratios if the mid levels soak.

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Not sure how much better the ratios will be NW of the city. The profile is not dramatically different from those in and around the NYC area. I expect most of us to be in the 10-12:1 ratio range.

I don't know how well you can trust it, the 18z NAM actually went down in ratios from 12z at KMMU. 12z had mostly 10:1 ratios while 18z is now going with mostly 8:1. Total snow on the 12z NAM was ~4.7" while 18z has dropped to only 3.6" total. Meawhile it drops exactly 0.49". That's a tad better than a 7:1 mean ratio.

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At 15z, the 0c line at 850 is right along the south shore or just offshore. At 18z, it's over LI Sound. Between those two times, 0.1-0.25" falls across NYC and Long Island west to east. At least a chunk of that would likely be sleet or freezing rain.

That's assuming that the 850mb 0 degree line is the snow/sleet line.

Snow should still predominate with the warmest layer between 0-0.5 C, especially if it's relatively shallow.

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lol. good point.

i guess i didnt mean whether or not we mix but rather figuring out ratios...like cant one look at mid level temps and surface temps to calculate ratios?

12-1 for you, give or take. Could see a bit higher.

edit: Upton goes 15-1 for you, so there you go.

you'll do fine. No golf however with the snow cover.

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Still a fairly large spread on the positioning of the 850 0c isotherm. This will make a big difference for many locations just south of NYC's latitude. It will be important to watch the surface low track tonight -- as that seems to be the tip off as to whether or not the mid level warming will surge a little farther north. The models that are bringing the H85 warming a tick north are also bringing the surface low slightly farther north into the Ohio Valley.

SREF_Spaghetti_H8_0__f024.gif

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Still a fairly large spread on the positioning of the 850 0c isotherm. This will make a big difference for many locations just south of NYC's latitude. It will be important to watch the surface low track tonight -- as that seems to be the tip off as to whether or not the mid level warming will surge a little farther north. The models that are bringing the H85 warming a tick north are also bringing the surface low slightly farther north into the Ohio Valley.

SREF_Spaghetti_H8_0__f024.gif

North shore looks good. South shore not so much...

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Still a fairly large spread on the positioning of the 850 0c isotherm. This will make a big difference for many locations just south of NYC's latitude. It will be important to watch the surface low track tonight -- as that seems to be the tip off as to whether or not the mid level warming will surge a little farther north. The models that are bringing the H85 warming a tick north are also bringing the surface low slightly farther north into the Ohio Valley.

SREF_Spaghetti_H8_0__f024.gif

can u get that same chart a few frames ahead? Isnt that before the precip starts? or as it starts? I could be wrong

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yea i hear ya...cant win every event. im sure up this way you end up being on the northern fridge of tight coastals but....ill take it over being on the I95 snow/mix line with many others.

Yeah, definitely. This is getting a bit OT but you get in on overrunning up here more so than CNJ obviously. It definitely sucks when you get screwed by 4 huge coastals..that winter was quite an anomaly though.

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can u get that same chart a few frames ahead? Isnt that before the precip starts? or as it starts? I could be wrong

That's at 21 hours..or 15z Saturday. If the NAM is correct, we're staring down the back edge of the best lift already at that time. Again, I think we could see an hour or two of sleet or freezing rain on the back end south of the city. The mid level warming likes to overperform in these events.

http://www.meteo.psu.edu/~gadomski/NAMSFC4_18z/rad22.gif

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Still a fairly large spread on the positioning of the 850 0c isotherm. This will make a big difference for many locations just south of NYC's latitude. It will be important to watch the surface low track tonight -- as that seems to be the tip off as to whether or not the mid level warming will surge a little farther north. The models that are bringing the H85 warming a tick north are also bringing the surface low slightly farther north into the Ohio Valley.

Nice graphic. Thanks for posting.

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Look out for some light waa snows to break out this evening well in advance of the show, obviously eastern areas would be favored and higher elevations, radar should once again look pretty cool at lower levels as it did last night, upton alluded to this in the latest afd.

Good luck to all, my advice would be to hit the hay early, this thing will start ahead of progged times, waa waits for no weenie.

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Look out for some light waa snows to break out this evening well in advance of the show, obviously eastern areas would be favored and higher elevations, radar should once again look pretty cool at lower levels as it did last night, upton alluded to this in the latest afd.

Good luck to all, my advice would be to hit the hay early, this thing will start ahead of progged times, waa waits for no weenie.

should be a good one for us Joe! :drunk:

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Which is always the case.

So far the precip is not reaching the ground much ahead of where most models showed it through 00Z or where it should be through 00Z. Alot of the time though these sort of events are on time through about OH/W PA and after that is where they start to really begin with the expanded of the WAA snow shield, so we'll have to watch the next 3-4 hours.

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