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Jan 20th snow event


Thundersnow12

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I'll tell you what. I'll suspend my edict to toss the NAM for 20 minutes while we digest the 18z GFS. Barring a substantive shift with that model, I think this is just a typical garbage 18z NAM run.

I concur with the amounts you posted.

Seems reasonable.

Storm does get sampled tonight, so tonight's runs will be vital

13z RUC at 24 hours looks interesting. And about your sig....you should say 2009 lol since Jan 2009 had two-three decent storms.

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Yeah that's too low. I think 4-6" with isolated higher amounts would be a good call for Milwaukee.

My earlier call of 1-3" for here still looks good. I'll go with 2" here, and 1-1.5" for the QC. Lock it in.

They might be a step behind the models. Last night 3-5 would've probably been a good call, but if anything the trends have been positive the last 12 hours.

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Seems reasonable.

Storm does get sampled tonight, so tonight's runs will be vital

13z RUC at 24 hours looks interesting. And about your sig....you should say 2009 lol since Jan 2009 had two-three decent storms.

I didn't record a single storm in Jan 2009 that dropped 6"/12 hours. One storm, Jan 17-18, dropped about 7" over the course of 18 hours. And neither Pearson nor downtown recorded a single 6"+ storm that month, within 12 hours or otherwise. So I stand by 2008.

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I didn't record a single storm in Jan 2009 that dropped 6"/12 hours. One storm, Jan 17-18, dropped about 7" over the course of 18 hours. And neither Pearson nor downtown recorded a single 6"+ storm that month, within 12 hours or otherwise. So I stand by 2008.

You and I have different measuring tallies. Jan 2009 did not feature decent and strong storms but alot of overrunning events, plus it was quite cold.

18z GFS looks slightly south of the 18z Nam thru 24 :(

I'd rather wait till 0z so lets see.

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You and I have different measuring tallies. Jan 2009 did not feature decent and strong storms but alot of overrunning events, plus it was quite cold.

18z GFS looks slightly south of the 18z Nam thru 24 :(

I'd rather wait till 0z so lets see.

1. Official measurements are all that count. And yeah, Jan 2009 was a wintry month. Did not feature a true winter storm (ie, warning criteria storm) though.

2. Compare whether the 18z GFS is north of the 12z GFS. That's what matters. I don't care enough to do it myself.

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1. Official measurements are all that count. And yeah, Jan 2009 was a wintry month. Did not feature a true winter storm (ie, warning criteria storm) though.

2. Compare whether the 18z GFS is north of the 12z GFS. That's what matters. I don't care enough to do it myself.

Seems slightly further north, ;)

Yeah Jan 2009 the last "true" Winter month.

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1. Official measurements are all that count. And yeah, Jan 2009 was a wintry month. Did not feature a true winter storm (ie, warning criteria storm) though.

2. Compare whether the 18z GFS is north of the 12z GFS. That's what matters. I don't care enough to do it myself.

Well, it actually gets the 0.10" isohyet north of us, so that's gotta be an improvement over the 12z GFS.

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You're implying that because the NAM sucked bag today, it's going to suck bag tomorrow.

Wouldn't that be reasonable to expect if it is in such a close time frame? I mean if it was 2 days away from now it could be right then, but we should at least wait until 00z runs once it corrects with current conditions? Instead of the old data?

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Well, it actually gets the 0.10" isohyet north of us, so that's gotta be an improvement over the 12z GFS.

Well the models have been trending north with each run today so that is some good news. I will make my preliminary call now but it could change after tonight's 00z runs. Right now 1-3" seems like a reasonable call for YYZ.

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I didn't record a single storm in Jan 2009 that dropped 6"/12 hours. One storm, Jan 17-18, dropped about 7" over the course of 18 hours. And neither Pearson nor downtown recorded a single 6"+ storm that month, within 12 hours or otherwise. So I stand by 2008.

Don't forget about March 23rd, 2011. Just over 6" (16 cm) fell in downtown Toronto. Or the strong Lake Ontario LES event on January 8th which also dumped 16 cm.

Back on topic, the 18z runs were an improvement. The 00z runs tonight will determine if it's game on or not for us.

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Wouldn't that be reasonable to expect if it is in such a close time frame? I mean if it was 2 days away from now it could be right then, but we should at least wait until 00z runs once it corrects with current conditions? Instead of the old data?

Hypothetically speaking, say a model was too far south with an arctic front. Then that could have implications with how it handled a subsequent wave traversing the front. But there has to be some sort of causality. Just because a model allegedly (see Hoosier's post) mishandled the placement of some snow with a lead system, doesn't mean that it will invariably mishandle key features with a storm on its heels. They're completely independent in my mind, except with that causal link.

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Well the models have been trending north with each run today so that is some good news. I will make my preliminary call now but it could change after tonight's 00z runs. Right now 1-3" seems like a reasonable call for YYZ.

12z NAM trended north from an extreme southerly solution at 6z. Aside from that, I'd say the 12z runs were a wash. GFS actually trended south a bit.

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12z ECMWF

LSE:

FRI 18Z 20-JAN -13.5   -13.8	1024	  71	  99	0.19	 543	 525  
SAT 00Z 21-JAN -14.3   -13.9	1024	  79	  75	0.09	 544	 526

MSN:

FRI 18Z 20-JAN -13.8   -12.3	1024	  71	 100	0.13	 545	 527  
SAT 00Z 21-JAN -13.2   -12.1	1023	  83	  98	0.24	 545	 528  
SAT 06Z 21-JAN -17.2   -12.5	1024	  83	  32	0.01	 547	 529

MKE:

FRI 18Z 20-JAN -12.3   -13.4	1024	  69	 100	0.07	 546	 527  
SAT 00Z 21-JAN  -9.4   -12.3	1021	  82	  98	0.30	 546	 529  
SAT 06Z 21-JAN  -9.6   -13.2	1022	  77	  50	0.05	 546	 530

SBM:

FRI 18Z 20-JAN -12.6   -15.4	1025	  64	 100	0.05	 542	 524  
SAT 00Z 21-JAN -12.0   -13.9	1023	  82	  98	0.16	 543	 525  
SAT 06Z 21-JAN -14.7   -14.1	1023	  84	  42	0.01	 544	 526

CID:

FRI 18Z 20-JAN -10.0	-7.2	1021	  65	  95	0.06	 551	 535  
SAT 00Z 21-JAN -10.0	-9.1	1021	  80	  86	0.08	 550	 534

DVN:

FRI 18Z 20-JAN  -8.5	-6.7	1021	  50	  90	0.04	 552	 536  
SAT 00Z 21-JAN  -8.2	-7.4	1020	  76	  89	0.08	 551	 535  
SAT 06Z 21-JAN -12.7	-7.7	1022	  83	  42	0.01	 551	 534

PIA:

SAT 00Z 21-JAN  -4.1	-3.5	1018	  53	  95	0.01	 554	 540  
SAT 06Z 21-JAN  -6.3	-4.0	1020	  72	  54	0.02	 553	 538

RFD:

FRI 18Z 20-JAN -10.5	-9.9	1023	  68	 100	0.09	 549	 532  
SAT 00Z 21-JAN  -9.4	-8.6	1021	  85	  99	0.23	 549	 533  
SAT 06Z 21-JAN -11.9	-9.8	1022	  87	  48	0.04	 549	 532

ORD:

FRI 18Z 20-JAN  -7.6	-9.9	1023	  69	 100	0.06	 550	 532  
SAT 00Z 21-JAN  -6.4	-7.7	1020	  86	  99	0.22	 549	 534  
SAT 06Z 21-JAN  -6.5	-8.5	1020	  87	  60	0.11	 549	 533  
SAT 12Z 21-JAN  -7.3	-9.3	1022	  78	  20	0.01	 551	 534  
SAT 18Z 21-JAN  -3.3	-6.5	1024	  70	  22	0.01	 556	 537

MDW:

FRI 18Z 20-JAN  -7.7	-9.2	1023	  68	  99	0.04	 550	 533  
SAT 00Z 21-JAN  -6.6	-7.1	1020	  83	  99	0.17	 550	 534  
SAT 06Z 21-JAN  -6.7	-7.9	1020	  85	  65	0.11	 550	 534  
SAT 12Z 21-JAN  -5.6	-8.4	1022	  78	  18	0.01	 552	 535  
SAT 18Z 21-JAN  -4.0	-5.4	1024	  71	  21	0.01	 556	 537

DEC:

SAT 06Z 21-JAN  -4.0	-0.9	1018	  73	  77	0.04	 556	 541

VPZ:

FRI 18Z 20-JAN  -8.2	-8.1	1023	  57	 100	0.02	 551	 534  
SAT 00Z 21-JAN  -7.5	-5.6	1020	  76	 100	0.10	 551	 536  
SAT 06Z 21-JAN  -7.3	-6.9	1020	  85	  85	0.14	 550	 535

LAF:

SAT 00Z 21-JAN  -3.4	-1.3	1018	  51	  84	0.01	 555	 541  
SAT 06Z 21-JAN  -4.9	-2.3	1018	  84	  92	0.14	 554	 540  
SAT 12Z 21-JAN  -8.7	-2.8	1021	  84	  29	0.01	 554	 538

IND:

SAT 06Z 21-JAN  -2.5	 1.2	1016	  82	  97	0.07	 556	 543  
SAT 12Z 21-JAN  -5.1	-0.6	1019	  83	  44	0.03	 556	 541

OKK:

SAT 00Z 21-JAN  -4.3	-1.5	1019	  54	  88	0.02	 554	 540  
SAT 06Z 21-JAN  -5.2	-2.6	1018	  86	  98	0.18	 553	 539  
SAT 12Z 21-JAN  -8.0	-3.2	1021	  86	  31	0.02	 554	 538

FWA:

SAT 00Z 21-JAN  -5.8	-3.1	1020	  66	 100	0.07	 552	 537  
SAT 06Z 21-JAN  -5.9	-4.3	1019	  87	  98	0.19	 552	 537  
SAT 12Z 21-JAN  -8.2	-4.9	1021	  84	  29	0.02	 552	 536

HAO:

SAT 06Z 21-JAN  -0.9	 3.4	1015	  89	  99	0.10	 558	 546  
SAT 12Z 21-JAN  -2.4	 1.0	1017	  85	  76	0.08	 557	 543

DAY:

SAT 00Z 21-JAN  -2.2	-0.5	1019	  50	  81	0.01	 556	 541  
SAT 06Z 21-JAN  -2.3	 1.6	1016	  83	 100	0.08	 556	 543  
SAT 12Z 21-JAN  -4.3	-0.7	1018	  86	  66	0.09	 555	 541

CMH:

SAT 00Z 21-JAN  -2.1	-0.9	1020	  53	  91	0.01	 556	 540  
SAT 06Z 21-JAN  -2.1	 1.5	1016	  82	  98	0.06	 555	 543  
SAT 12Z 21-JAN  -3.3	-0.8	1017	  88	  77	0.14	 555	 542

TDZ:

SAT 00Z 21-JAN  -5.7	-7.2	1022	  72	 100	0.11	 551	 533  
SAT 06Z 21-JAN  -5.1	-5.7	1019	  89	  99	0.25	 550	 535  
SAT 12Z 21-JAN  -7.4	-7.6	1021	  85	  28	0.05	 551	 535

CLE:

SAT 00Z 21-JAN  -4.8	-8.1	1023	  64	 100	0.04	 551	 533  
SAT 06Z 21-JAN  -5.1	-4.9	1019	  87	  99	0.24	 550	 535  
SAT 12Z 21-JAN  -4.1	-6.2	1019	  85	  57	0.13	 550	 536

MKG:

FRI 18Z 20-JAN  -7.4   -15.5	1024	  66	 100	0.02	 544	 526  
SAT 00Z 21-JAN  -7.9   -12.9	1022	  83	  99	0.24	 545	 528  
SAT 06Z 21-JAN -10.6   -12.1	1022	  84	  67	0.05	 545	 528

GRR:

FRI 18Z 20-JAN  -7.5   -13.0	1024	  55	 100	0.01	 545	 527  
SAT 00Z 21-JAN  -8.9   -11.5	1022	  85	 100	0.21	 546	 528  
SAT 06Z 21-JAN -12.5   -11.0	1022	  89	  84	0.10	 545	 529

BTL:

SAT 00Z 21-JAN  -8.5	-8.9	1022	  80	 100	0.22	 548	 531  
SAT 06Z 21-JAN  -9.2	-8.7	1021	  88	  96	0.16	 547	 531

ADG:

SAT 00Z 21-JAN  -7.4	-7.9	1022	  77	  99	0.15	 549	 532  
SAT 06Z 21-JAN  -8.0	-6.7	1020	  89	  98	0.25	 548	 533  
SAT 12Z 21-JAN -11.3	-7.8	1022	  83	  18	0.02	 550	 533

DTW:

SAT 00Z 21-JAN  -7.7   -10.0	1023	  76	  99	0.12	 548	 530  
SAT 06Z 21-JAN  -8.2	-7.7	1021	  88	  99	0.24	 547	 531  
SAT 12Z 21-JAN -12.3	-9.1	1022	  84	  18	0.02	 548	 532

PHN:

SAT 00Z 21-JAN -10.6   -12.6	1025	  82	  99	0.07	 545	 526  
SAT 06Z 21-JAN -10.3   -10.8	1022	  85	  99	0.15	 545	 528  
SAT 12Z 21-JAN -11.5   -11.1	1022	  82	  20	0.01	 546	 529

YKF:

SAT 00Z 21-JAN  -8.7   -14.5	1025	  63	 100	0.01	 542	 523  
SAT 06Z 21-JAN  -8.8   -12.9	1022	  80	 100	0.09	 542	 526  
SAT 12Z 21-JAN -12.6   -12.7	1021	  79	  47	0.02	 543	 527

YYZ:

SAT 06Z 21-JAN  -6.6   -13.6	1022	  73	 100	0.08	 541	 524  
SAT 12Z 21-JAN  -7.5   -13.2	1021	  75	  66	0.03	 542	 526

Personally, and it's probably easy for me to say being an outsider to the event, I'd just print these off and expect that to fall in your respective backyards. You know, just to make it less stressful. :D

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Don't forget about March 23rd, 2011. Just over 6" (16 cm) fell in downtown Toronto. Or the strong Lake Ontario LES event on January 8th which also dumped 16 cm.

Back on topic, the 18z runs were an improvement. The 00z runs tonight will determine if it's game on or not for us.

LES doesn't count as a winter storm. You make a good point about March 23, 2011, although I just eked out 6" and Pearson didn't make it. But I think people should look to the spirit, rather that the letter of my sig. The spirit is: we've been getting screwed left right and centre for several winters now notwithstanding the fact that we've hobbled a few arguable "storms" together.

This is way off topic. Any of my Toronto friends want to continue this debate, feel free to PM me.

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