winterymix Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 Being wrong is the trend with alarmists. It actually correlates well with CO2. The higher CO2 goes the dumber and more brain dead their statements become. I'm certain that we need to keep the discourse on a higher level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vergent Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 I am planning to become a B.S. Student in two years for atmospheric science, So now we know you are 16. BethesdaWX said First goal is the BS in Atmospheric Science. http://www.americanw.../page__st__1575 post #1599 Same solar magnetic B.S. So now we know you are the banned BethesdaWX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Msalgado Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 I wouldn't be so quick to associate a upcoming degree with any particular age. I went back to school in my late 20s and I'm about to graduate with a BS in environmental science at the age of 33. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Global_Warmer Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonger Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 because that source has not been updated. if you look at his CV, the paper is listed, but is listed neither as "submitted" nor as "in press". thus it is the equivalent to a blog post. I work in scientific publishing and I can tell you based on what is on his CV, he is counting a non-peer reviewed essay as a publication. this is well outside accepted practices. Now it makes sense. Sent from my phone, please excuse my grammar! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonger Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 I wouldn't be so quick to associate a upcoming degree with any particular age. I went back to school in my late 20s and I'm about to graduate with a BS in environmental science at the age of 33. There is a flood of people pursuing higher education after years of working in defunct fields now days. Sent from my phone, please excuse my grammar! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SVT450R Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 So now we know you are 16. BethesdaWX said [/background][/font][/color] http://www.americanw.../page__st__1575 post #1599 Same solar magnetic B.S. So now we know you are the banned BethesdaWX Congrats Sherlock Holmes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonger Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 So now we know you are 16. BethesdaWX said [/background][/font][/color] http://www.americanw.../page__st__1575 post #1599 Same solar magnetic B.S. So now we know you are the banned BethesdaWX I thought Ben4vols was BB? I went back and looked at BB posts and they seem far more harsh and combative then what I have seen from either of these guys. Funny, when I started posting here again last November, I got accused of being a banned poster until Stormtracker vouched for me being on eastern. Sent from my phone, please excuse my grammar! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snow_Miser Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 I thought Ben4vols was BB? I went back and looked at BB posts and they seem far more harsh and combative then what I have seen from either of these guys. Funny, when I started posting here again last November, I got accused of being a banned poster until Stormtracker vouched for me being on eastern. Sent from my phone, please excuse my grammar! It's amazing that when I claim that the sun may have an important role in climate change, that I get accused of being someone who I am not. It's a sickening red herring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeatherRusty Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 Can we please stop accusing certain skeptics as being BethesdaWX/boy. Who cares? Ben's posting style is nothing like BB's. BB was a veritable clearing house for skeptical arguments, long winded, excruciating long posts all over every thread. The skeptics in unison jump all over the same denialist material sounding as one unified voice. A hierarchical backbone of disinformation is their guiding light. This represents an ideological viewpoint masquerading as a scientifically based one. The selling of confusion and ambiguity, sprinkled with a seasoning of fringe science to lender the appearance of legitimacy is their game. Some are more prone to falling for it than others, depending mostly on their personal world view and their degree of distrust for authority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snow_Miser Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 Channel 5 temperatures have started declining again, we are now 5th coolest in the AQUA website, and 4th and 3rd place are not even a tenth cooler than 2012. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LakeEffectKing Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 NCDC's global temp. anamolies for June remain relatively steady: 2010 6 0.6741 2010 7 0.6550 2010 8 0.5749 2010 9 0.4939 2010 10 0.5626 2010 11 0.7157 2010 12 0.4213 2011 1 0.3945 2011 2 0.4194 2011 3 0.5214 2011 4 0.5872 2011 5 0.5078 2011 6 0.5861 2011 7 0.5667 2011 8 0.5367 2011 9 0.5249 2011 10 0.5725 2011 11 0.4349 2011 12 0.4673 2012 1 0.3651 2012 2 0.3602 2012 3 0.4529 2012 4 0.6582 2012 5 0.6511 2012 6 0.6434 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snow_Miser Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 So both NCDC and GISS came in cooler than the satellites for June 2012, but agree relatively so on what place June 2012 finished as. Very interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snow_Miser Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 Global temps on aqua have increased from yesterday's values. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben4vols Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Steven Goddard once again putting out some powerful graphs. The manipulated data is a joke. But hey, it's the BEST data money can buy. LINK They cool the past by 2.5 degrees, and then claim that the past decade has been the warmest by a few tenths of a degree. Enron accountants would be proud of such fine data presentation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donsutherland1 Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Steven Goddard once again putting out some powerful graphs. I don't agree. If Mr. Goddard's assessment were correct, one would find a long-term cooling trend in the Arctic. If a long-term cooling had been underway, one would not be dealing with issues such as record and near record low sea ice/ice volume minima during the summer, widespread glacial retreat in Greenland, etc. The existence of those issues argues against Goddard's assessment of a long-term cooling in the Arctic. It validates the GISS temperature record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SVT450R Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Channel 5 temps now basically tied with 2011 still below 2010. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Global_Warmer Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 I don't agree. If Mr. Goddard's assessment were correct, one would find a long-term cooling trend in the Arctic. If a long-term cooling had been underway, one would not be dealing with issues such as record and near record low sea ice/ice volume minima during the summer, widespread glacial retreat in Greenland, etc. The existence of those issues argues against Goddard's assessment of a long-term cooling in the Arctic. It validates the GISS temperature record. Mr. Goddard thinks the NSIDC directly tampers with there data. So he is pretty much a fringe looney toon. Unfortunately humans with weak will power and bad logic and reasoning skills can fall prey to such frauds as Steven Goddard. it's also unfortunate that many folks get lost looking for Goddard space info and find him. Below is the mean temps for May-June 1960-1985. VS May-June 2012. See a difference? it's a huge incredible change taking place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben4vols Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 I don't agree. If Mr. Goddard's assessment were correct, one would find a long-term cooling trend in the Arctic. If a long-term cooling had been underway, one would not be dealing with issues such as record and near record low sea ice/ice volume minima during the summer, widespread glacial retreat in Greenland, etc. The existence of those issues argues against Goddard's assessment of a long-term cooling in the Arctic. It validates the GISS temperature record. The graphs were for US temps not Arctic temps. If you look at raw temps you can see temps this decade were close to the warming period of the 30's/40's. There are many other variables that come into play regarding Arctic temps and one of the main variables is not US temperature. Also ice has been trying to add back recently (especially on the Pac side) but the first year ice can't withstand summer melt and probably won't until the North Atlantic cools. The Arctic melt of the 30's/40's is also playing a role in this melt period as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben4vols Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Below is the mean temps for May-June 1960-1985. VS May-June 2012. See a difference? it's a huge incredible change taking place. So you are surprised that we are warmer when we are at the peak or near the peak of the last warming period vs climo during a cooling period? Of course I see a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryM Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Everyone is aware that 'Steve Goddard' is an online name made up by an otherwise anonymous blogger right? Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donsutherland1 Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 The graphs were for US temps not Arctic temps. If you look at raw temps you can see temps this decade were close to the warming period of the 30's/40's. There are many other variables that come into play regarding Arctic temps and one of the main variables is not US temperature. Also ice has been trying to add back recently (especially on the Pac side) but the first year ice can't withstand summer melt and probably won't until the North Atlantic cools. The Arctic melt of the 30's/40's is also playing a role in this melt period as well. My error, I had incorrectly assumed that you were discussing Arctic temperatures, as the graphs weren't labeled. The conclusion is still the same. There is no decline in temperatures in the U.S. Plant hardiness zones, later first freezes, earlier last freezes, expanded growing seasons, etc., all are consistent with a warming climate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaWx Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 Folks, Today in Twitter, JB posted the following JMA Aug. fcast maps with this intro: "JMA showing global cooling starting ." Does anyone notice anything funny about these maps? Hint: something's missing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Global_Warmer Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 Folks, Today in Twitter, JB posted the following JMA Aug. fcast maps with this intro: "JMA showing global cooling starting ." Does anyone notice anything funny about these maps? Hint: something's missing! Looks like no poles, no computer averages where the C is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryM Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 Folks, Today in Twitter, JB posted the following JMA Aug. fcast maps with this intro: "JMA showing global cooling starting ." Does anyone notice anything funny about these maps? Hint: something's missing! Who stole Greenland? It seems as though the facts have so overwhelmed them that all that's left for the "skeptics" is to make up their own facts. Sad thing is that it's working. Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaWx Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 Folks, Today in Twitter, JB posted the following JMA Aug. fcast maps with this intro: "JMA showing global cooling starting ." Does anyone notice anything funny about these maps? Hint: something's missing! Friv/Terry, thanks for your replies. However, that isn't to what I was alluding. Note that the legends are missing! Keep in mind my feeling (and I think Don Sutherland agrees) that JB is very likely treating the white as neutral rather than warm (it is 0 to +1 and is the polar opposite of the light blue). If the whites are treated as neutral, then the maps appear to avg. cold. However, the maps are, in reality, averaging warm. Why are the legends now not being shown? Are they being intentionally hidden? I certainly don't know the answer, but do wonder why they are being hidden. How can one post maps like this without legends? If not intentional, that is a poor and careless presentation. Any opinions? To compare, here is an older set of maps that JB posted on Twitter with the legends being displayed (note that whites are warm/opposite of light blue; there is more white plus yellow than blue..so avg. is warm): Now look at what he posted yesterday (no legends)..again there is more white plus yellow than blue..so avg. is still warm despite his calling it cold: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donsutherland1 Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 Keep in mind my feeling (and I think Don Sutherland agrees) that JB is very likely treating the white as neutral rather than warm (it is 0 to +1 and is the polar opposite of the light blue). If the whites are treated as neutral, then the maps appear to avg. cold. However, the maps are, in reality, averaging warm. I agree with you, GaWx. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icebreaker5221 Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 Folks, Today in Twitter, JB posted the following JMA Aug. fcast maps with this intro: "JMA showing global cooling starting ." Does anyone notice anything funny about these maps? Hint: something's missing! His quote "JMA showing global cooling starting" is just as bad if not worse than not showing the poles or the color bar. Even if the JMA was forecasting 3 months of below average temperature (which it's not), saying "global cooling starting" makes the assumption that following months and even years will be increasingly cooler and cooler with time which absolutely cannot be inferred from a seasonal forecast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaWx Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 His quote "JMA showing global cooling starting" is just as bad if not worse than not showing the poles or the color bar. Even if the JMA was forecasting 3 months of below average temperature (which it's not), saying "global cooling starting" makes the assumption that following months and even years will be increasingly cooler and cooler with time which absolutely cannot be inferred from a seasonal forecast. Agreed 100%. By the way, I feel I should clarify one thing. I've obviously been quite critical of JB recently because he has been just plain wrong on what he has been saying about both the JMA as well as Polclimate maps by saying they look cold for the globe when they actually don't. That doesn't mean I'm necessarily taking the other side (the vast majority of global warming being caused by AGW). I've been openly fairly neutral about this issue as I still have sig. doubts as to how things will actually play out in the coming years. This is due to a lot of uncertainty I feel with regard to the level of the sun's prior influence on late 20th century warming as well as cooling influence during 1880-1910. I've seen good arguments here on both sides of this issue. So, I really want to see how the next 5+ years play out (will the globe finally exhibit a sig. and sustained cooldown due to the current major solar min.??). Regardless of what side, if any, anyone wants to take, I would hope that all here would agree that JB is doing a disservice to the skeptical side by posting blatantly wrong things on Twitter because he has a lot of followers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Msalgado Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 Agreed 100%. By the way, I feel I should clarify one thing. I've obviously been quite critical of JB recently because he has been just plain wrong on what he has been saying about both the JMA as well as Polclimate maps by saying they look cold for the globe when they actually don't. That doesn't mean I'm necessarily taking the other side (the vast majority of global warming being caused by AGW). I've been openly fairly neutral about this issue as I still have sig. doubts as to how things will actually play out in the coming years. This is due to a lot of uncertainty I feel with regard to the level of the sun's prior influence on late 20th century warming as well as cooling influence during 1880-1910. I've seen good arguments here on both sides of this issue. So, I really want to see how the next 5+ years play out (will the globe finally exhibit a sig. and sustained cooldown due to the current major solar min.??). Regardless of what side, if any, anyone wants to take, I would hope that all here would agree that JB is doing a disservice to the skeptical side by posting blatantly wrong things on Twitter because he has a lot of followers. Being appropriately critical of a poor data presentation regardless of the presenter and their agenda is a surefire way to build trust regarding a contentious issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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