Winter '11/'12 Complaint Thread

[wisconsinwx]

60/70's rain/clouds all throughout June/July/August.. Nice wind off the lake for both of us as well

Morning rain fing with convection all summer long

Can't wait!!!

No, you're confusing your hometown with Milwaukee; they are two different summer climates.

[Harry]

It's a winter like this one that should make those people that said they would rather have an east coast winter over a midwest winter think twice. The stinkers will always have some snow in the midwest, this isn't true on the east coast.

Not really because many here could be waiting the rest of our lives for another 18+ event out this way unlike there. Plus when it torches there it actually feels nice unlike here most times as low 40s is considered a torch here. That was the beauty of 97-98 where i use to live on the coast. Yeah i did not see a single flake that winter ( ONLY time in my life ) but ala was never any real threats and it felt nice outside for the most part. If it is gonna be cold it damn well better snow IF NOT it can torch all the way into late March.

Yes snow is great to see but it loses it's wow factor after time especially when every snow event is basically the same routine. Maybe i am different but i love seing what ma nature can dish out as far as extreme snowfall goes. Chances of that here seem nil. Yeah there was 67-78-79-99 and GHD for SOME but that is it.

Different strokes for different folks i suppose. I for one would still take a place like say ORH over any place out this way except for the LES belts from about Kalamazoo on west.

Also places like Philly i believe i have only seen one snowless winter ala 72-73. Same is not true further up the coast especially just north of NYC in Southern New England. Regardless the chances are high that they see a meaningful ( 18+ ) snowstorm before we do atleast from Philly on north especially S.New England. I like extremes and with winter being my favorite a big snowstorm is a part of that. Yes it is nice that it snows a little more here but that does not make up for the missing wow factor. I have lived here for what will be 8 winters after this winter is over with and this will probably become the longest stretch i have ever gone without a wow factor snowstorm. My last one ( well it was close ) was PD II in Ohio. Outside the freak Dec 2001 LES event one has to go back to Jan 99 here and prior to that Jan 79. Also outside a couple of medium size LES events NOT ONE SINGLE snowstorm has overperformed here. NOT ONE. Not of the 6+ varity and that too i have never seen till i moved here. There was always the surprise event every so many years but not here. Ofcourse the coast has that advantage with that big ole ocean right there so just a 50 mile shift in storm track could mean the difference between a non event or 12+...

Not trying to piss on anyone/anything but both regions have their pro's and con's even in this winter. If you are into big storms/nice surprises then the eastcoast is it but if you are more into routine/more consistant snowfall then this region is obviously the better choice outside of S.New England ( NOT BOSTON/The water ) perhaps the exception being the LES belts which beats both. So yeah there is those who would still take the gamble and thus live in S.New England despite how this winter has been in both regions. They did atleast have a nice bomb back in late October. What have we had? Pretty sure next year nobody will be talking much about the storms we have had up to this point but it is a given that storm they had will be and thus the difference. Look at the past say 10 years. What stands out here as far as storms people really remember? PD II in OH, Christmas 2004, Jan clipper on roids 2005, GHD, VD 2007, and for some March 2008 in OH. Of all of them The jan 2005 event was the only to really hit S.MI the hardest but ala most only say 10-14" from it. Meanwhile places like say Baltimore/Philly/NYC, S.New England has seen what? Too many to count. No comparison. 2008-09 was the snowiest winter ever here but can anyone name a single event that stands out and despite that the ground was bare by the end of the first week of Feb? Similiar thing with 07-08 region wide. People bring up that Dec event but ala mainly because of what the models HAD shown at one point and thus not the final results outside the northern burbs in Detroit. Every major city and small back east from about/near DC north has had atleast 3 such events of 18+ ( PD 11, Feb 06, 09-10, 10-11 but further north ) and how many have we seen in places like Detroit, Here? NATTA! Chicago 1, MKE 2 i think?,Unsure about Indianapolis??, LAF 1, CMH 1 ( Eastern/n burbs 2-3 via PDII, Christmas 04, March 08 )..... No comparison. Now back in that period between 66-67 and say 81-82 this region ruled as we not only had a very decent amount of snowcover days but deep snows at that and big storms. Granted the east saw it's share too but i don't think they had the constant deep snowcover like we did a few winters and into March on a number of occasions. Again not talking the snowbelts because yeah obviously that is another world there.

[Harry]

Yea, Winter is saved!

Ref: http://www.accuweath...-northeas/60608

Kiss of death!

[Hoosier]

If I were only interested in huge snowstorms and the choice was between here and out east, the answer is obvious. Can't compete with SNE or even the Mid Atlantic in that regard. But they can't compete with overall thunderstorm days and severe weather frequency/opportunities. Mid Atlantic > SNE for tstorm chances while retaining decent big snowstorm odds so that would probably be my ideal area if I ever move east.

[Harry]

If I were only interested in huge snowstorms and the choice was between here and out east, the answer is obvious. Can't compete with SNE or even the Mid Atlantic in that regard. But they can't compete with overall thunderstorm days and severe weather frequency/opportunities. Mid Atlantic > SNE for tstorm chances while retaining decent big snowstorm odds so that would probably be my ideal area if I ever move east.

Oh yes.. I definetly agree with this.

[roardog]

Plus when it torches there it actually feels nice unlike here most times as low 40s is considered a torch here.

So true. I always say even when it's a "warm" winter day here, it's still cold. Those low 40s are usually accompanied by a strong SW wind that makes it too chilly outside to do anything meaningful.

[Jonger]

It looks pretty forgone that there will be no pattern change this winter. Wow, what a turd we got served up. This winter basically didn't happen.

[buckeye]

Not really because many here could be waiting the rest of our lives for another 18+ event out this way unlike there. Plus when it torches there it actually feels nice unlike here most times as low 40s is considered a torch here. That was the beauty of 97-98 where i use to live on the coast. Yeah i did not see a single flake that winter ( ONLY time in my life ) but ala was never any real threats and it felt nice outside for the most part. If it is gonna be cold it damn well better snow IF NOT it can torch all the way into late March.

Yes snow is great to see but it loses it's wow factor after time especially when every snow event is basically the same routine. Maybe i am different but i love seing what ma nature can dish out as far as extreme snowfall goes. Chances of that here seem nil. Yeah there was 67-78-79-99 and GHD for SOME but that is it.

Different strokes for different folks i suppose. I for one would still take a place like say ORH over any place out this way except for the LES belts from about Kalamazoo on west.

Also places like Philly i believe i have only seen one snowless winter ala 72-73. Same is not true further up the coast especially just north of NYC in Southern New England. Regardless the chances are high that they see a meaningful ( 18+ ) snowstorm before we do atleast from Philly on north especially S.New England. I like extremes and with winter being my favorite a big snowstorm is a part of that. Yes it is nice that it snows a little more here but that does not make up for the missing wow factor. I have lived here for what will be 8 winters after this winter is over with and this will probably become the longest stretch i have ever gone without a wow factor snowstorm. My last one ( well it was close ) was PD II in Ohio. Outside the freak Dec 2001 LES event one has to go back to Jan 99 here and prior to that Jan 79. Also outside a couple of medium size LES events NOT ONE SINGLE snowstorm has overperformed here. NOT ONE. Not of the 6+ varity and that too i have never seen till i moved here. There was always the surprise event every so many years but not here. Ofcourse the coast has that advantage with that big ole ocean right there so just a 50 mile shift in storm track could mean the difference between a non event or 12+...

Not trying to piss on anyone/anything but both regions have their pro's and con's even in this winter. If you are into big storms/nice surprises then the eastcoast is it but if you are more into routine/more consistant snowfall then this region is obviously the better choice outside of S.New England ( NOT BOSTON/The water ) perhaps the exception being the LES belts which beats both. So yeah there is those who would still take the gamble and thus live in S.New England despite how this winter has been in both regions. They did atleast have a nice bomb back in late October. What have we had? Pretty sure next year nobody will be talking much about the storms we have had up to this point but it is a given that storm they had will be and thus the difference. Look at the past say 10 years. What stands out here as far as storms people really remember? PD II in OH, Christmas 2004, Jan clipper on roids 2005, GHD, VD 2007, and for some March 2008 in OH. Of all of them The jan 2005 event was the only to really hit S.MI the hardest but ala most only say 10-14" from it. Meanwhile places like say Baltimore/Philly/NYC, S.New England has seen what? Too many to count. No comparison. 2008-09 was the snowiest winter ever here but can anyone name a single event that stands out and despite that the ground was bare by the end of the first week of Feb? Similiar thing with 07-08 region wide. People bring up that Dec event but ala mainly because of what the models HAD shown at one point and thus not the final results outside the northern burbs in Detroit. Every major city and small back east from about/near DC north has had atleast 3 such events of 18+ ( PD 11, Feb 06, 09-10, 10-11 but further north ) and how many have we seen in places like Detroit, Here? NATTA! Chicago 1, MKE 2 i think?,Unsure about Indianapolis??, LAF 1, CMH 1 ( Eastern/n burbs 2-3 via PDII, Christmas 04, March 08 )..... No comparison. Now back in that period between 66-67 and say 81-82 this region ruled as we not only had a very decent amount of snowcover days but deep snows at that and big storms. Granted the east saw it's share too but i don't think they had the constant deep snowcover like we did a few winters and into March on a number of occasions. Again not talking the snowbelts because yeah obviously that is another world there.

Good post Harry I do agree with a lot of it. Personally I'd take north of philly, new england winter over cmh winter anyday....I still don't think I could handle the midatlantic. True, they get the big ones every once in awhile and the last two years have been freak winters for them. But in all my years of being part of a weather forum and reading both sides, that area seems like frustration and heartbreak city.

I did live in Philly for 3 years, (actually Bucks county to the nw), '74-'77 and I still recall how miserably snowless it was there. We moved back to Columbus just in time for '77-'78 and after those three years in Philly I thought this place was the fcking north pole lol.

Here in cmh there's probably not much diff between a 40 degree winter day vs. the same in the midatlantic. However where you are, you probably have to deal with cold winds off the lake and a much later start to true spring.

A few other things about the coast vs. here:

-When they do have a big event, Philly and south, it tends to have very little staying power. If you like prolonged snowcover, forget it.

-Watching clipper snow and frontal snow literally evaporate off the radar as it hits the mountains.

-Extreme cold, (if you like that sort of thing)....coasters don't really achieve prolonged brutal cold.

March '08 gave me my first taste of an 'HECS' styled dumping here in CMH (22"). It was memorable indeed, but I still wouldn't give up all my nickles, dimes, and quarters to wait on one of those every 2,3, or more years.

One nice thing about CMH is we do tend to get in on some of the action with a lot of the HECS events. PDll (15") Jan'96 (12") etc. We also did quite well 2 winters ago when DC was getting hammered with those storms.

One last thing that I would not like about new england. The slow, miserable death of winter. We can have an early spring here that's awesome. They have dirty back door fronts and cold winds that can really drag out winter.

EDIT: btw Harry you didn't mention that storm last winter, the one that clocked chicago. Didn't GRR get hammered on that one?

[BowMeHunter]

"Wicked" big snow storms are great and all but I couldn't listen to a Bostonian or other east coast accent person talk for more than thirty seconds without reaching for the nearest sharp object to cut my ears off.

[pondo1000]

Good post Harry I do agree with a lot of it. Personally I'd take north of philly, new england winter over cmh winter anyday....I still don't think I could handle the midatlantic. True, they get the big ones every once in awhile and the last two years have been freak winters for them. But in all my years of being part of a weather forum and reading both sides, that area seems like frustration and heartbreak city.

I did live in Philly for 3 years, (actually Bucks county to the nw), '74-'77 and I still recall how miserably snowless it was there. We moved back to Columbus just in time for '77-'78 and after those three years in Philly I thought this place was the fcking north pole lol.

Here in cmh there's probably not much diff between a 40 degree winter day vs. the same in the midatlantic. However where you are, you probably have to deal with cold winds off the lake and a much later start to true spring.

A few other things about the coast vs. here:

-When they do have a big event, Philly and south, it tends to have very little staying power. If you like prolonged snowcover, forget it.

-Watching clipper snow and frontal snow literally evaporate off the radar as it hits the mountains.

-Extreme cold, (if you like that sort of thing)....coasters don't really achieve prolonged brutal cold.

March '08 gave me my first taste of an 'HECS' styled dumping here in CMH (22"). It was memorable indeed, but I still wouldn't give up all my nickles, dimes, and quarters to wait on one of those every 2,3, or more years.

One nice thing about CMH is we do tend to get in on some of the action with a lot of the HECS events. PDll (15") Jan'96 (12") etc. We also did quite well 2 winters ago when DC was getting hammered with those storms.

One last thing that I would not like about new england. The slow, miserable death of winter. We can have an early spring here that's awesome. They have dirty back door fronts and cold winds that can really drag out winter.

EDIT: btw Harry you didn't mention that storm last winter, the one that clocked chicago. Didn't GRR get hammered on that one?

Hey Buck, where did you live in Bucks County? I grew up there, in Southampton. I will forever remember the Bilzzard of '96 and how it was "lock stock and barrel" 7 days out on all the models. I also had the pleasure of experiencing the Super Storm of '93 while attending Millersville U. Then, my family moved out this in time to experience the nice March '08 Storm. I think you nailed it when you talked about snow cover here and clippers here vs. the mid-Atantic. I HATED clippers out east b/c they NEVER came to fruition. Here, often it is all we get and they can build up a nice snow cover. I mean, it was 2 years ago (I think) where I had about 15-18 inches of snow cover in MBY. That was very, very rare back east. Heck, even the Bilzzard of '96 was followed by flooding rains a week later! Also, bought a snow blower for my parents that following spring and they didn't even fire it up for like 3 years b/c the winters that followed sucked!

[A-L-E-K]

zzzzzzzzz

[buckeye]

Hey Buck, where did you live in Bucks County? I grew up there, in Southampton. I will forever remember the Bilzzard of '96 and how it was "lock stock and barrel" 7 days out on all the models. I also had the pleasure of experiencing the Super Storm of '93 while attending Millersville U. Then, my family moved out this in time to experience the nice March '08 Storm. I think you nailed it when you talked about snow cover here and clippers here vs. the mid-Atantic. I HATED clippers out east b/c they NEVER came to fruition. Here, often it is all we get and they can build up a nice snow cover. I mean, it was 2 years ago (I think) where I had about 15-18 inches of snow cover in MBY. That was very, very rare back east. Heck, even the Bilzzard of '96 was followed by flooding rains a week later! Also, bought a snow blower for my parents that following spring and they didn't even fire it up for like 3 years b/c the winters that followed sucked!

Lived in Doylestown

[Powerball]

Not really because many here could be waiting the rest of our lives for another 18+ event out this way unlike there. Plus when it torches there it actually feels nice unlike here most times as low 40s is considered a torch here. That was the beauty of 97-98 where i use to live on the coast. Yeah i did not see a single flake that winter ( ONLY time in my life ) but ala was never any real threats and it felt nice outside for the most part. If it is gonna be cold it damn well better snow IF NOT it can torch all the way into late March.

Yes snow is great to see but it loses it's wow factor after time especially when every snow event is basically the same routine. Maybe i am different but i love seing what ma nature can dish out as far as extreme snowfall goes. Chances of that here seem nil. Yeah there was 67-78-79-99 and GHD for SOME but that is it.

Different strokes for different folks i suppose. I for one would still take a place like say ORH over any place out this way except for the LES belts from about Kalamazoo on west.

Also places like Philly i believe i have only seen one snowless winter ala 72-73. Same is not true further up the coast especially just north of NYC in Southern New England. Regardless the chances are high that they see a meaningful ( 18+ ) snowstorm before we do atleast from Philly on north especially S.New England. I like extremes and with winter being my favorite a big snowstorm is a part of that. Yes it is nice that it snows a little more here but that does not make up for the missing wow factor. I have lived here for what will be 8 winters after this winter is over with and this will probably become the longest stretch i have ever gone without a wow factor snowstorm. My last one ( well it was close ) was PD II in Ohio. Outside the freak Dec 2001 LES event one has to go back to Jan 99 here and prior to that Jan 79. Also outside a couple of medium size LES events NOT ONE SINGLE snowstorm has overperformed here. NOT ONE. Not of the 6+ varity and that too i have never seen till i moved here. There was always the surprise event every so many years but not here. Ofcourse the coast has that advantage with that big ole ocean right there so just a 50 mile shift in storm track could mean the difference between a non event or 12+...

Not trying to piss on anyone/anything but both regions have their pro's and con's even in this winter. If you are into big storms/nice surprises then the eastcoast is it but if you are more into routine/more consistant snowfall then this region is obviously the better choice outside of S.New England ( NOT BOSTON/The water ) perhaps the exception being the LES belts which beats both. So yeah there is those who would still take the gamble and thus live in S.New England despite how this winter has been in both regions. They did atleast have a nice bomb back in late October. What have we had? Pretty sure next year nobody will be talking much about the storms we have had up to this point but it is a given that storm they had will be and thus the difference. Look at the past say 10 years. What stands out here as far as storms people really remember? PD II in OH, Christmas 2004, Jan clipper on roids 2005, GHD, VD 2007, and for some March 2008 in OH. Of all of them The jan 2005 event was the only to really hit S.MI the hardest but ala most only say 10-14" from it. Meanwhile places like say Baltimore/Philly/NYC, S.New England has seen what? Too many to count. No comparison. 2008-09 was the snowiest winter ever here but can anyone name a single event that stands out and despite that the ground was bare by the end of the first week of Feb? Similiar thing with 07-08 region wide. People bring up that Dec event but ala mainly because of what the models HAD shown at one point and thus not the final results outside the northern burbs in Detroit. Every major city and small back east from about/near DC north has had atleast 3 such events of 18+ ( PD 11, Feb 06, 09-10, 10-11 but further north ) and how many have we seen in places like Detroit, Here? NATTA! Chicago 1, MKE 2 i think?,Unsure about Indianapolis??, LAF 1, CMH 1 ( Eastern/n burbs 2-3 via PDII, Christmas 04, March 08 )..... No comparison. Now back in that period between 66-67 and say 81-82 this region ruled as we not only had a very decent amount of snowcover days but deep snows at that and big storms. Granted the east saw it's share too but i don't think they had the constant deep snowcover like we did a few winters and into March on a number of occasions. Again not talking the snowbelts because yeah obviously that is another world there.

Great post.

Indianapolis saw two 12+" snowstorms in the last 20 years, 2009 (the overrunning event) and 1996.

St. Louis is pretty much the only major city in the Mid Atlantic/Plains/New England/Great Lakes/Ohio Valley that has a worse major snowstorm futility record than Detroit.

But this is why I would take a Chicago or Milwaukee weather anytime (summer or winter). They get much better severe weather events compared to this side of the lake and higher bomb potential in the winter. Even last season, as bad of a season Milwaukee had relative to average, they still got smacked with the GHD. The snow event frequency and snowcover days may be slightly less, but it's all a trade off.

I couldn't live with east coast weather either. I must have my severe weather, which is my first love. And that's another plus for Chicago/Milwaukee, because of less lake modification they do see sunnier and hotter summers and thus they have more juice to work with for severe t'storms.

Quite frankly, Chicago/Milwaukee probably has the best weather climate for all true weather buffs. You get a mixed bag of everything, from the higher potential of extreme events to the consistency of weather unlike along the east coast and in the plains (and it's sunnier, and sunshine IMO makes everything that less depressing, I odn't care what anyone says).

[Trent]

If this year ends up below normal for snow, this will be the third straight at CLE without above average snow. Perhaps this will be the big payback year for the early to mid 2000s.

I still think this season is salvageable from a storm standpoint. Final totals don't tell the story. 4 separate 3" fluff events in a 2 week period is leaps and bounds less exciting than 10" from a gulf low despite what number shows up in a climate total.

[Jonger]

Howell, MI will have had high temps at or below 32 degrees 15 times in Dec & Jan of this winter

Winter of 2010-2011 Louisville, KY had 24 days with highs below 32 degrees in Dec & Jan.

I'm working my way south to get this matched with this winter verse a location in the south. I'm thinking northern Tennessee did better last winter then mid Michigan this winter.

[michsnowfreak]

Also outside a couple of medium size LES events NOT ONE SINGLE snowstorm has overperformed here. NOT ONE. Not of the 6+ varity and that too i have never seen till i moved here.

That part surprises me. I thought for sure a few 6"+ snowstorms must have overperformed for you in 8 years....I especially thought March 21, 2008 way overperformed for you? I do agree that counting the run-of-the-mill 1-5" type snowfalls as overperformers is a bit of a stretch (but then too we shouldnt harp on when they underperform either)..because its the 6"+ storms that usually have the highest impact. Off the top of my head I count seven 6"+ snowstorms that have overperformed for DTW in the last 8 years but the problem (as you mentioned) is that the monsters just arent there. Our ONE chance to see a monster (GHD 2011) underperformed and ala add another 10" storm to the pile. That is indeed frustrating, and I can actually guarentee it frustrates ME more than you would ever imagine.

But also as you said different strokes for different folks. Going a whole winter without a flake (as you did in 1997-98) would be as nightmare for me. Id take this type of winter and all its disappointment any day over a winter without any snow. Or even one of those winters where the east gets like one snowfall, I like to at least see snow in the air (as horrendous as this winter has been, we have had 28 days with some snow falling). I try to also not worry about what is going on elsewhere. Some take solace in the fact that misery enjoys company, and we are all suffering this winter...but I think I could handle a below-normal snowfall winter that is cold but snowcovered (which would mean the action keeps suppressing south)..over a winter like this with so much bare ground (but knowing everyones suffering). Not that suppression wouldnt frustrate the hell out of me, but at least it would look/feel like winter for more than a few days.

But lets just hope we all can post a little less in THIS thread and a little more in some STORM threads the next few months

[michsnowfreak]

Howell, MI will have had high temps at or below 32 degrees 15 times in Dec & Jan of this winter

Winter of 2010-2011 Louisville, KY had 24 days with highs below 32 degrees in Dec & Jan.

I'm working my way south to get this matched with this winter verse a location in the south. I'm thinking northern Tennessee did better last winter then mid Michigan this winter.

Theres a lot of winter left, but it will be interesting to see what the official numbers are at the end. Detroit averages 44 days per year with a max temp AOB 32F. In 2010-11 they had 68 days...in 2011-12 so far just 12 days.

[michsnowfreak]

"Wicked" big snow storms are great and all but I couldn't listen to a Bostonian or other east coast accent person talk for more than thirty seconds without reaching for the nearest sharp object to cut my ears off.

[michsnowfreak]

March '08 gave me my first taste of an 'HECS' styled dumping here in CMH (22"). It was memorable indeed, but I still wouldn't give up all my nickles, dimes, and quarters to wait on one of those every 2,3, or more years.

My sentiments 1000%. Hell, screw 22" give me 36" . When I finally can break the 12.5" barrier in ONE storm (not just getting a 12-16" depth from several snows), I want to do it in style. I want one of those snowstorms that Jefferson and Washington documented from the 1700s. But I would NEVER trade a climate of more reliable nickel/dime/quarters for better potential for a monster.

[AppsRunner]

What does it take to get a storm to properly phase and get some cold air for once?

[Nic]

What does it take to get a storm to properly phase and get some cold air for once?

A new winter, this one is broken.

[michsnowfreak]

What does it take to get a storm to properly phase and get some cold air for once?

In 2010-11 it seemed like it took nothing for it to snow and snow good, ie it snowed when it really shouldnt....and now its the other end of the spectrum. The cold, when it does make its rare appearances, is afraid to meet up with precipitation.

[mnweather]

This winter has been the worst. Biggest storm has dumped 2". This area is probably the most below average to date than anyone else on this board. Well I take that back maybe some places in the UP of Michigan are farther below average to date. Im not sure.

[AppsRunner]

In 2010-11 it seemed like it took nothing for it to snow and snow good, ie it snowed when it really shouldnt....and now its the other end of the spectrum. The cold, when it does make its rare appearances, is afraid to meet up with precipitation.

I still have some hope that February does something better than this. It's realistically possible that I double my season total (10.6" @ TOL, more here) in the next 45 days. Still can't believe that I'm only 5.4" below last year's total this far.

[Jonger]

Theres a lot of winter left, but it will be interesting to see what the official numbers are at the end. Detroit averages 44 days per year with a max temp AOB 32F. In 2010-11 they had 68 days...in 2011-12 so far just 12 days.

I'm betting that Howell averages more then 75 days per winter AOB 32. Considering Detroit sattles the 32 degree average high when mine is around 29, the days AOB 32 are probably significantly effected.

.........EDITED........

I'm using Lansing numbers... Its 58.

Gaylord averges 83 days AOB 32. They are at 32 days right now. Last winter it was all but 4 days in Dec/Jan... the last 4 days of Dec.

[michsnowfreak]

I still have some hope that February does something better than this. It's realistically possible that I double my season total (10.6" @ TOL, more here) in the next 45 days. Still can't believe that I'm only 5.4" below last year's total this far.

Well last Feb was insane for snow, but still... this may be the perfect example of why the final season snowfall total does NOT tell the whole story of winter. With 3 months of snow potential to go in a Nina, I still give Detroit no more than a 10% chance of making the top 20 least snowy winters list (#20 is 25.1") and a 1% chance of making the top 10 (#10 is 18.0"). Even if Feb fails to deliver, historical odds of a snowy/cold March following a mild, low snow winter are extremely high here. But no matter what happens from here on out, though we will probably have some enjoyable wintry days ahead....theres no taking back the disappointment factor of whats already happened.

[Harry]

Good post Harry I do agree with a lot of it. Personally I'd take north of philly, new england winter over cmh winter anyday....I still don't think I could handle the midatlantic. True, they get the big ones every once in awhile and the last two years have been freak winters for them. But in all my years of being part of a weather forum and reading both sides, that area seems like frustration and heartbreak city.

I did live in Philly for 3 years, (actually Bucks county to the nw), '74-'77 and I still recall how miserably snowless it was there. We moved back to Columbus just in time for '77-'78 and after those three years in Philly I thought this place was the fcking north pole lol.

Here in cmh there's probably not much diff between a 40 degree winter day vs. the same in the midatlantic. However where you are, you probably have to deal with cold winds off the lake and a much later start to true spring.

A few other things about the coast vs. here:

-When they do have a big event, Philly and south, it tends to have very little staying power. If you like prolonged snowcover, forget it.

-Watching clipper snow and frontal snow literally evaporate off the radar as it hits the mountains.

-Extreme cold, (if you like that sort of thing)....coasters don't really achieve prolonged brutal cold.

March '08 gave me my first taste of an 'HECS' styled dumping here in CMH (22"). It was memorable indeed, but I still wouldn't give up all my nickles, dimes, and quarters to wait on one of those every 2,3, or more years.

One nice thing about CMH is we do tend to get in on some of the action with a lot of the HECS events. PDll (15") Jan'96 (12") etc. We also did quite well 2 winters ago when DC was getting hammered with those storms.

One last thing that I would not like about new england. The slow, miserable death of winter. We can have an early spring here that's awesome. They have dirty back door fronts and cold winds that can really drag out winter.

EDIT: btw Harry you didn't mention that storm last winter, the one that clocked chicago. Didn't GRR get hammered on that one?

Ha.. You left Philly just when things were about to go boom. 77-78/78-79 were great back east. Can include 79-80 but this was more DC on south. 76-77 was just downright miserable. Endless cold but not much snow to speak of but what did fall hung around for a long time which is unusual in those parts. Could be why i cannot stand cold/dry winters. I mean if it is to protect a DEEP snowcover fine but anything else i'll pass unless it snows. Anyways as mentioned snowcover is FINE IF it is deep which only 08-09 has had here. Still gotta get the big beast to be able to make that argument. As said above that period between 1966-67 and 1981-82 ruled in this region as it had it all. Big beast storms, deep snowcover into March etc. Last winter was the first that i actually had snowcover into March. I suppose when something meaningful happens here my views may change some.

Strangely i did well here as well 2 winters ago with those systems that slammed DC/Baltimore/Philly. 2009-10 was just downright crazy especially how the snowfall came here. I don't think a storm has ever dropped a foot here and then nailed DC as well up till that winter anyways. Then there was that massive plains blizzard which dumped a foot here despite the track well to the west of here. Lake helped but still. Oh and yes i mentioned GHD.

Anyways i was talking from purely a winter standpoint/snow. Not spring/summer.. I'll take our Spring/summer any day over the east coast. This area here has been like a hot spot for severe wx so cannot complain at all about that. Have seen more here just in the past 5 years then i did my whole life prior. lol Granted we do get backdoored up here but meh it does not bother me unlike others.

A few ( around here especially/W.MI ) talk about how terrible this winter is ( yeah it is bad-could be worse ) BUT right at THIS moment in time my backyard is only 5 inches shy of where it was last year when January ended! Thus at Feb 1st only 35" had fallen here. Still a chance we could roll into Feb1st with the same exact seasonal snowfall to date that this area had a year ago. Thus why not much complaining from me. Crazy how that works. Ofcourse last winter this area was the screw zone in the region as most others were doing much better at this point.

[knitwx]

My flowers are confused. My Irises came upand my snow drops are blooming in my front yard.

[SpartyOn]

My flowers are confused. My Irises came upand my snow drops are blooming in my front yard.

[/quote

Funny you mention this. I've been wondering if the hardy growth has come early this year. It happened in 98 and 02. Nature can tell/teach one allot about the present and future.

My biggest complaint about winter in general is the overall lack of sun. I hate being down wind from the Lakes. I agree with powerball. I would take a Chicago winter any day over a Detroit winter. Higher bomb potentials and slightly more sunny days. Although this winter has not been nearly as gray as last year.

Still think a sub 20 inch is possible but not likely. I won't take it off the table. Sub 30 might been a given. But these totals are only speculation based on what we have seen and trends.

Anything thing can happen. Biggest lesson from this winter or lack of so far. La Niño continues.

[Harry]

My flowers are confused. My Irises came upand my snow drops are blooming in my front yard.

[/quote

Funny you mention this. I've been wondering if the hardy growth has come early this year. It happened in 98 and 02. Nature can tell/teach one allot about the present and future.

My biggest complaint about winter in general is the overall lack of sun. I hate being down wind from the Lakes. I agree with powerball. I would take a Chicago winter any day over a Detroit winter. Higher bomb potentials and slightly more sunny days. Although this winter has not been nearly as gray as last year.

Still think a sub 20 inch is possible but not likely. I won't take it off the table. Sub 30 might been a given. But these totals are only speculation based on what we have seen and trends.

Anything thing can happen. Biggest lesson from this winter or lack of so far. La Niño continues.

Considering what happened last winter here i would not make such bets/assumptions etc on a sub 20 or sub 30 winter there. Not yet. Have almost the exact same season to date snowfall here as last winter and despite another crappy March last year it still ended up right at normal ( well 2 inches above..Still considered normal) for seasonal snowfall here and none of it was LES. GHD helped a bit though. Call me a chicken but yeah i would not make a bet on anything be it above, below, normal, record setting in either direction. Not in a nina winter and certainly not in this region knowing the historical records like i do.