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January 12-14 Potential storm


dilly84

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I see the ECMWF catching on to the general QPF scenario I thought would be a bit more realistic, especially with the band of post-frontal snows. However, it appears to be doing this through a combination of even stronger mid/upper forcing than the 12Z run had (it actually closes off the mid-level low quite early this time around) and allows the wave to catch some of the elevated warm conveyor belt moisture from the first southern wave. We'll see if this pans out. Keep an eye on that ensemble spread when it comes out. If it appears to be in good agreement between the members, then the deterministic model has a good shot at being right.

Obviously we're still dealing with "second-hand" moisture here and it's confined from 700 on up for the most part, which will limit the totals. Very cold low-mid level temps (850s < -10C !) may make for some decently high ratios though.

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I see the ECMWF catching on to the general QPF scenario I thought would be a bit more realistic, especially with the band of post-frontal snows. However, it appears to be doing this through a combination of even stronger mid/upper forcing than the 12Z run had (it actually closes off the mid-level low quite early this time around) and allows the wave to catch some of the elevated warm conveyor belt moisture from the first southern wave. We'll see if this pans out. Keep an eye on that ensemble spread when it comes out. If it appears to be in good agreement between the members, then the deterministic model has a good shot at being right.

Obviously we're still dealing with "second-hand" moisture here and it's confined from 700 on up for the most part, which will limit the totals. Very cold low-mid level temps (850s < -10C !) may make for some decently high ratios though.

00z euro ensembles are out..

Cant get any better agreement from the ensembles. The ensemble mean is basically a duplicate of the euro itself. Surface low crawls north from Ohio to near Detroit and the southern end of Huron and then moves off to the ene/ne. Gets down into the 980-994mb range.. .50+ from Milwaukee/Chicago-E.IL into all of MI and IN. Thats the ensemble mean QPF. 500 low is about as strong and closed off.

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I like what DTX has to say!

PREFERENCE LIES WITH A GFS/ECMWF TYPE SYSTEM FOR THE END OF THE

WEEK...A SOLUTION THAT KEEPS A LOW LEVEL THERMAL LOW IN PLACE OVER

THE GREAT LAKES DUE TO LAKE AGGREGATE EFFECTS. THE MOST ACTIVE

TIMEFRAME FROM A SYSTEM RELATIVE PERSPECTIVE APPEARS IN STORE FROM

18Z THUR TO 00Z FRIDAY. THURSDAY AFTERNOON WILL SEE A RAPIDLY

DEVELOPING COLD FRONT WHISTLING THROUGH THE AREA...KICKSTARTING AN

IMPRESSIVE AMOUNT OF COLD AIR ADVECTION. HIGHS ON THURSDAY SHOULD

REACH THE UPPER 30S PRIOR TO 18Z...THEN FALL PRECIPITOUSLY DURING

THE AFTERNOON. SNOWFALL POTENTIAL WITH THIS SYSTEM REMAINS DIFFICULT

TO SAY. THE BIGGEST OUTLYING QUESTION REMAINS...WHERE EXACTLY WILL

THE INSTA-OCCLUSION HAPPEN THURSDAY NIGHT. 10.00Z ECMWF SUGGESTS IT

WILL OCCUR OVER MUCH OF SOUTHERN LOWER MICHIGAN AND THE CWA...WHILE

THE GFS SOLUTION PINPOINTS NORTHERN LOWER MICHIGAN. GIVEN COLD

TEMPERATURES...SNOW RATIOS WILL BE ON THE HIGH SIDE WHICH WILL

SUPPORT EFFICIENT SNOW RATES AND SUBSEQUENT AMOUNTS. GIVEN SUCH A

DEPENDENCE ON THE TROWAL FEATURE/OCCLUSION ALOFT IT REMAINS TOO

EARLY TO VENTURE ANY GUESSES ON SNOW AMOUNTS. NEEDLESS TO SAY

THOUGH...THERE IS A GOOD BET THAT MOST AREAS WILL AT LEAST SEE AN

ACCUMULATION. DAYTIME HIGHS FRIDAY/SATURDAY/SUNDAY ARE EXPECTED TO

STRUGGLE IN THE 20S WITH NIGHTTIME LOWS DROPPING INTO THE

TEENS...POSSIBLY SINGLE DIGITS.

http://forecast.weather.gov/product.php?site=NWS&issuedby=DTX&product=AFD&format=CI&version=1&glossary=1

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why did I even look at the 6z gfs :( O well hopefully the euro looks promising yet when I get back from ice fishing this afternoon.. Ice was sketchy yesterday but I just can't let a day like today go by with ligh winds and torch.. Froze our butts off and left after 2 hrs yesterday because the dam wind was brutal.

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I'm 100% not buying qpf amounts over .3 with this thing, 700mb looks awfully dry and we'll have no real gulf moisture connection...I see the 0z Euro went a little nuts with ill and the forcing managed .50+ amounts, really hard to imagine. Ratios will likely be beefy no matter what. Still like a 1-2" event and a fairly widespread one at that, especially across N. Illinois, Wisconsin and Michigan, but places just north of here and along the western shore of MI could make it to advisory levels (not including LE). It's nice to have something to watch without having major thermal issues.

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from Gino

PROBABLY THE MOST NOTEWORTHY CHANGE TO THE FORECAST IS THE SNOW

POTENTIAL. MODELS (SAVE FOR THE NAM WHICH HAS BEEN DISCOUNTED) HAVE

ALL TRENDED FARTHER SOUTH WITH CUTTING OFF THE H5 LOW...TRACKING

ACROSS OUR CWA OR MAYBE JUST SOUTH OF OUR AREA. WHILE THE SYSTEM

WILL NOT HAVE AN ABUNDANCE OF MOISTURE...THE STRONG FORCING SHOULD BE

QUITE EFFICIENT AT SQUEEZING WHAT LITTLE BIT OF JUICE THE ATMOSPHERE

HAS IN IT. WHILE MODEL QPF IS GENERALLY IN THE 0.15-0.3" RANGE...AM

CONCERNED THAT THE SNOW:LIQUID RATIOS COULD BE LARGER THAN AVERAGE

AS FORECAST SOUNDINGS SHOW A DEEP ISOTHERMAL LAYER AROUND -15C

RESULTING IN A DENDRITIC GROWTH ZONE WELL OVER 100MB DEEP FOR A TIME

THURSDAY INTO THURSDAY EVENING. CERTAINLY LOOKING INCREASINGLY

LIKELY THAT WE COULD BE DEALING WITH A POTENTIAL ADVISORY LEVEL

EVENT WITH AT LEAST SEVERAL INCHES OF SNOW OVER PORTIONS OF THE CWA.

HAVE INCREASED POPS SUBSTANTIALLY LATE WED NIGHT THROUGH THURSDAY

NIGHT AND WILL ISSUE AN SPS WITH THE MORNING PRODUCTS TO HIGHLIGHT

THE POTENTIAL FIRST SIGNIFICANT SNOWFALL OF THE SEASON.

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IIRC past events with deep DGZs and limited moisture are a mixed bag, I'm going to have to look at things a little closer later this morning.

Despite what the euro and it's ensembles show i am gonna wait till the 00z runs before i get too excited even if the 12z run shows a epic bomb. And yeah i would like to see the GFS totally join the euro.

One of the reasons for the better moisture/qpf is because the models have been trending towards a more westerly and weaker southern system. Yes that helps our cause. IF this trend does continue then yeah we could be looking at a totally different ball game. Especially if we totally lose that eastcoast low.

Thus why yeah i'll take the wait and see approach for another couple of runs.

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00z euro ensembles are out..

Cant get any better agreement from the ensembles. The ensemble mean is basically a duplicate of the euro itself. Surface low crawls north from Ohio to near Detroit and the southern end of Huron and then moves off to the ene/ne. Gets down into the 980-994mb range.. .50+ from Milwaukee/Chicago-E.IL into all of MI and IN. Thats the ensemble mean QPF. 500 low is about as strong and closed off.

We have a long way to go but this is pretty big. Without getting too much into a model debate, if I could ask for one thing at this range, it would be a good OP Euro run with excellent model support. On the flip side, i couldn't care less that the NAM is showing nothing...it's amazing what a winter of massive failure will do to your model perceptions...and we're finally starting to see some movement in the SREFs, which will hopefully continue. Agreement amongst the 0z GFS ensembles is also slowly improving. Confidence in a 1-2" event for MBY is approaching med/high with confidence in a solid advisory level event now low/med.

Despite what the euro and it's ensembles show i am gonna wait till the 00z runs before i get too excited even if the 12z run shows a epic bomb. And yeah i would like to see the GFS totally join the euro.

One of the reasons for the better moisture/qpf is because the models have been trending towards a more westerly and weaker southern system. Yes that helps our cause. IF this trend does continue then yeah we could be looking at a totally different ball game. Especially if we totally lose that eastcoast low.

Thus why yeah i'll take the wait and see approach for another couple of runs.

We haven't come close to locking into a solution yet and there is probably a lot of evolution left but at least we're trending in the right direction for the time being.

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SEMI is dangerously close from getting sucker punched with this system. Another 30-50 miles more east and were gold

Another 30-50 miles more west and we're screwed. Either way we'll be dry slotted given how close the surface low is tracking (overhead).

If we can't get enough for an advisory event, then this might as well miss us. Nuisance snow is a nuisance while having to be out and about.

Western and Northern Michigan is especially golden however. The Battle Creek-Hillsdale-Angola area for all intents and purposes has pretty much been the snow magnet in an otherwise not-so-good start to the winter.

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Another 30-50 miles more west and we're screwed. Either way we'll be dry slotted given how close the surface low is tracking (overhead).

If we can't get enough for an advisory event, then this might as well miss us. Nuisance snow is a nuisance while having to be out and about.

Western and Northern Michigan is especially golden however. The Battle Creek-Hillsdale-Angola area for all intents and purposes has pretty much been the snow magnet in an otherwise not-so-good start to the winter.

Not really a solid event for the area. Although 3 days out is lots of time so I would not be shocked to see adjustments in either direction. Can't win em all. Glad to see the snowless areas to the west get there winters share.

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Not really a solid event for the area. Although 3 days out is lots of time so I would not be shocked to see adjustments in either direction. Can't win em all. Glad to see the snowless areas to the west get there winters share.

Worse case scenario 1 to 2" best case 3 to 5". Right now its a "solid" 1 to 3"+ event for the DET area.

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Another 30-50 miles more west and we're screwed. Either way we'll be dry slotted given how close the surface low is tracking (overhead).

If we can't get enough for an advisory event, then this might as well miss us. Nuisance snow is a nuisance while having to be out and about.

Western and Northern Michigan is especially golden however. The Battle Creek-Hillsdale-Angola area for all intents and purposes has pretty much been the snow magnet in an otherwise not-so-good start to the winter.

Yes we have, and thanks for noticing because it's a rare occurance that feels pretty nice! :pimp:

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