If you think December 2011 is bad.

[Rainshadow]

Tony Wood from the Philadelphia Inquirer was e-mailing me the last couple of days about the dearth of larger ticket single snow events in Philadelphia during the late '60s into the '70s. Granted this is for Philly and other places might have done better with some events during that time, but:

No single snow event over 7 inches fell from February 8, 1967 until January 19-20, 1978 in Philly and there were only two single events of between 6 and 7 inches during that time.

[Parsley]

Damn, glad I was born in the summer of 78'

I'm sure it was just as bad up in the NYC metro.

[JCT777]

Did it really happen if I was too young to really remember it?

I think we'll do pretty well in January and February.

[Quakertown needs snow]

thanks for my child hood years flash back tony .

lived in olney NE Phila area till 76 then to lower bucks in time for the bigger snows

[Rainshadow]

thanks for my child hood years flash back tony .

lived in olney NE Phila area till 76 then to lower bucks in time for the bigger snows

Sorry for bringing up those memories.

I was up in NYC back then, we were rocking with the Lindsey Storm in Feb '69, but even there not much big time happened again til Jan 78.

[Feb]

Tony Wood from the Philadelphia Inquirer was e-mailing me the last couple of days about the dearth of larger ticket single snow events in Philadelphia during the late '60s into the '70s. Granted this is for Philly and other places might have done better with some events during that time, but:

No single snow event over 7 inches fell from February 8, 1967 until January 19-20, 1978 in Philly and there were only two single events of between 6 and 7 inches during that time.

That made me curious to see how Lancaster made out during the same time period. I found the following stats.

2/7/67 11" (the day your time frame begins)

3/2/69 6.5"

12/26/69 12"

1/1/71 7"

2/18/72 11"

12/16/73 6"

3/9/76 7.2"

1/19/78 9.7" ( the end of your time frame)

We did better back this way but we can be thankful this board wasn't around back then.

[cast4]

Tony Wood from the Philadelphia Inquirer was e-mailing me the last couple of days about the dearth of larger ticket single snow events in Philadelphia during the late '60s into the '70s. Granted this is for Philly and other places might have done better with some events during that time, but:

No single snow event over 7 inches fell from February 8, 1967 until January 19-20, 1978 in Philly and there were only two single events of between 6 and 7 inches during that time.

Ouch.

[am19psu]

Tony Wood from the Philadelphia Inquirer was e-mailing me the last couple of days about the dearth of larger ticket single snow events in Philadelphia during the late '60s into the '70s. Granted this is for Philly and other places might have done better with some events during that time, but:

No single snow event over 7 inches fell from February 8, 1967 until January 19-20, 1978 in Philly and there were only two single events of between 6 and 7 inches during that time.

Want.

[tombo82685]

Want.

argh, the tropical nut in you is to much to overtake by snow.

[phlwx]

Tony Wood from the Philadelphia Inquirer was e-mailing me the last couple of days about the dearth of larger ticket single snow events in Philadelphia during the late '60s into the '70s. Granted this is for Philly and other places might have done better with some events during that time, but:

No single snow event over 7 inches fell from February 8, 1967 until January 19-20, 1978 in Philly and there were only two single events of between 6 and 7 inches during that time.

Since then what was the longest dearth of snow? Late 80's to the Superstorm?

[Parsley]

Since then what was the longest dearth of snow? Late 80's to the Superstorm?

That was a rough stretch.....I remember just getting into the weather around 4th grade at 10 years old and wanting snow so bad......didn't really get much excitement til the mid-90s.

[ChescoWx]

Tony.

I remember the end of that stretch snowstorm like it was yesterday from the January 19th event. I grew up in NE Philly. That storm from Jan 19th was well forecasted to be a big event....but all forecasts both NWS and Accu-weather had the storm starting as snow and changing to a wind swept heavy rain after between 2 to 5" of snow..... I went to bed at about 11pm with steady snow but fully expecting to awaken to slush or less by morning for my walk to school. My dad worked the night shift and my mom came into my room at 630am and told me to get up and help my dad get the car into the driveway....there was too much snow for him to get up our short driveway of our twin home. It turns out the change to rain never happened and over 13" of snow had fallen. I remember stepping out of the garage and sinking into the foot plus wet snow amazed at the depth. This event was followed by several more large events in both 78 and 79...followed up by what I thought would be the biggest snow of my lifetime in Feb 1983....that stood till the January 1996 blizzard. In the interim that 1993-94 winter still stands as my favorite winter of all time for its incredible combination of snow - incredible amounts of ice and consistent cold. I was working in the real world by then and believe we went 2 months during that winter without ever having a full week of work...between rolling brownouts due to the cold and treacherous driving conditions with amazing chunks of ice on 422 for a month straight....ah memories.

Thanks Tony for triggering these cold memories of my younger years!

Paul

Tony Wood from the Philadelphia Inquirer was e-mailing me the last couple of days about the dearth of larger ticket single snow events in Philadelphia during the late '60s into the '70s. Granted this is for Philly and other places might have done better with some events during that time, but:

No single snow event over 7 inches fell from February 8, 1967 until January 19-20, 1978 in Philly and there were only two single events of between 6 and 7 inches during that time.

[Rainshadow]

Tony.

I remember the end of that stretch snowstorm like it was yesterday from the January 19th event. I grew up in NE Philly. That storm from Jan 19th was well forecasted to be a big event....but all forecasts both NWS and Accu-weather had the storm starting as snow and changing to a wind swept heavy rain after between 2 to 5" of snow..... I went to bed at about 11pm with steady snow but fully expecting to awaken to slush or less by morning for my walk to school. My dad worked the night shift and my mom came into my room at 630am and told me to get up and help my dad get the car into the driveway....there was too much snow for him to get up our short driveway of our twin home. It turns out the change to rain never happened and over 13" of snow had fallen. I remember stepping out of the garage and sinking into the foot plus wet snow amazed at the depth. This event was followed by several more large events in both 78 and 79...followed up by what I thought would be the biggest snow of my lifetime in Feb 1983....that stood till the January 1996 blizzard. In the interim that 1993-94 winter still stands as my favorite winter of all time for its incredible combination of snow - incredible amounts of ice and consistent cold. I was working in the real world by then and believe we went 2 months during that winter without ever having a full week of work...between rolling brownouts due to the cold and treacherous driving conditions with amazing chunks of ice on 422 for a month straight....ah memories.

Thanks Tony for triggering these cold memories of my younger years!

Paul

Paul,

Your welcome. I remember that January 19th event for the same reason. Before that storm there was another one earlier in the week that was forecast to be a huge event, but changed to rain after a few inches. Yup that one (19th) was suppose to change to rain and in NYC never did. I worked part time in a rectory and that evening when I finished and walked home, the accumulations were nearly up to the forecast amount. My grandfather used to tell me when the snow blows up our block (n wind), it doesn't change. I remember walking home, into that "north" wind. I'd turn on NOAA Wx Radio (the only way to get real time weather information then) and listened to the constant updated and upped amounts through the event. That was some wild winter. A week later it poured and most of the snow melted and then the early February storm (which was well forecast) buried us again. I did not remember how wild the weather was prior to the Jan 19 event, there were three major events within a week:

http://www.fi.edu/weather/data2/1978.txt

[Rainshadow]

Since then what was the longest dearth of snow? Late 80's to the Superstorm?

Yeah there were some lean years then too; I lived in Yorktown Heights, NY for part of that stretch and we did better than NYC did.

[Rainshadow]

Walt told me last night that we are on pace for about the 5th warmest December on record in PHL.

[Sunny and Warm]

That made me curious to see how Lancaster made out during the same time period. I found the following stats.

2/7/67 11" (the day your time frame begins)

3/2/69 6.5"

12/26/69 12"

1/1/71 7"

2/18/72 11"

12/16/73 6"

3/9/76 7.2"

1/19/78 9.7" ( the end of your time frame)

We did better back this way but we can be thankful this board wasn't around back then.

lived in north central PA when I was young, and that 2/18/1972 storm gave us 30", which is still the record up that way. The late 60's were tremendous, and then only that 1972 storm in the 70's until the 77-78 season. Three 12"+ storms in less than seven days. Ah, the memories. Anytime Philly has a nine year stretch like that, the central PA folks are rejoicing.

[Rainshadow]

lived in north central PA when I was young, and that 2/18/1972 storm gave us 30", which is still the record up that way. The late 60's were tremendous, and then only that 1972 storm in the 70's until the 77-78 season. Three 12"+ storms in less than seven days. Ah, the memories. Anytime Philly has a nine year stretch like that, the central PA folks are rejoicing.

The late 60s were not that bad in NYC, the 72 storm changed to rain and then it was fairly mundane until 1977-78.

[Sunny and Warm]

The late 60s were not that bad in NYC, the 72 storm changed to rain and then it was fairly mundane until 1977-78.

Equally as fascinating as the 77-78 snows was the 76-77 cold. We were in a drought then, and I remember sometime in late Feb seeing rain, and recalling that I hadn't seen rain in like 4-5 months with the cold and dry conditions. I also remember the spring thaw in 1977, where five foot thick ice flows came down the west branch of the Susquehanna. With the change in PDO and eventually the AMO to cold signal, I'm expecting similar weather extremes in about 20 more years.

[Rainshadow]

Equally as fascinating as the 77-78 snows was the 76-77 cold. We were in a drought then, and I remember sometime in late Feb seeing rain, and recalling that I hadn't seen rain in like 4-5 months with the cold and dry conditions. I also remember the spring thaw in 1977, where five foot thick ice flows came down the west branch of the Susquehanna. With the change in PDO and eventually the AMO to cold signal, I'm expecting similar weather extremes in about 20 more years.

That fall of 1976 was (relatively) brutally cold as well as being dry. That was the October that planted the canary in my head.

[Grothar]

Tony.

I remember the end of that stretch snowstorm like it was yesterday from the January 19th event. I grew up in NE Philly. That storm from Jan 19th was well forecasted to be a big event....but all forecasts both NWS and Accu-weather had the storm starting as snow and changing to a wind swept heavy rain after between 2 to 5" of snow..... I went to bed at about 11pm with steady snow but fully expecting to awaken to slush or less by morning for my walk to school. My dad worked the night shift and my mom came into my room at 630am and told me to get up and help my dad get the car into the driveway....there was too much snow for him to get up our short driveway of our twin home. It turns out the change to rain never happened and over 13" of snow had fallen. I remember stepping out of the garage and sinking into the foot plus wet snow amazed at the depth. This event was followed by several more large events in both 78 and 79...followed up by what I thought would be the biggest snow of my lifetime in Feb 1983....that stood till the January 1996 blizzard. In the interim that 1993-94 winter still stands as my favorite winter of all time for its incredible combination of snow - incredible amounts of ice and consistent cold. I was working in the real world by then and believe we went 2 months during that winter without ever having a full week of work...between rolling brownouts due to the cold and treacherous driving conditions with amazing chunks of ice on 422 for a month straight....ah memories.

Thanks Tony for triggering these cold memories of my younger years!

Paul

I agree 93-94 is the best winter so far. Snow and ice on the roads for weeks. I had white knuckles just getting to work. I remember how brutally cold it was for days on end- below zero was common. Now that was a true winter. A severe winter not judged by snow totals but by cold weather too. We need to have a someone do a true winter data comparison which utilizes cold temps, winds and drifting snow, snow/ice cover depth, river ice, and duration. Snow amounts should not be the only determination of a good winter . I would rather have ice fog, below zero temps, snow cover of six inches and of course drifting snow as a sign of a good winter. When is the last time we all experienced wind driven snow and drifts up to 5 feet with below zero temps?

[Sunny and Warm]

I agree 93-94 is the best winter so far. Snow and ice on the roads for weeks. I had white knuckles just getting to work. I remember how brutally cold it was for days on end- below zero was common. Now that was a true winter. A severe winter not judged by snow totals but by cold weather too. We need to have a someone do a true winter data comparison which utilizes cold temps, winds and drifting snow, snow/ice cover depth, river ice, and duration. Snow amounts should not be the only determination of a good winter . I would rather have ice fog, below zero temps, snow cover of six inches and of course drifting snow as a sign of a good winter. When is the last time we all experienced wind driven snow and drifts up to 5 feet with below zero temps?

PDII

[BucksCO_PA]

Walt told me last night that we are on pace for about the 5th warmest December on record in PHL.

Currently tied with the 2nd warmest DEC on record so top 5 should be a lock.

the NOV / DEC top 5 warm couplet brings into play 2 of the unholiest of winter analogs - 2001-02 & 1931-32

JAN 1932 is to warmth what JAN 1977 was to cold, amazing that the warmest climo winter, by far, would have been recorded in JAN. Took until the last day of the month to finally drop below freezing and the ave low for the month was 40 degrees!

[famartin]

I agree 93-94 is the best winter so far. Snow and ice on the roads for weeks. I had white knuckles just getting to work. I remember how brutally cold it was for days on end- below zero was common. Now that was a true winter. A severe winter not judged by snow totals but by cold weather too. We need to have a someone do a true winter data comparison which utilizes cold temps, winds and drifting snow, snow/ice cover depth, river ice, and duration. Snow amounts should not be the only determination of a good winter . I would rather have ice fog, below zero temps, snow cover of six inches and of course drifting snow as a sign of a good winter. When is the last time we all experienced wind driven snow and drifts up to 5 feet with below zero temps?

For snowfall, 93-94 wins at ABE. It doesn't even come close to winning at PHL.

[chubbs]

Yea that stretch really sucked and it followed a good stretch from 58-67 that raised expectations. There were some real heartbreakers. I remember listening to the NY AM stations during the Lindsay storm while we had zip. The Christmas storm in 69 that changed to sleet/rain. The near miss in Feb 72. Makes you appreciate the good winters we have had recently.

[Sunny and Warm]

For snowfall, 93-94 wins at ABE. It doesn't even come close to winning at PHL.

The fall line separated ice from snow that year for sure. Snowed every Wednesday in the LV, and every storm kept getting upgraded in amounts the closer we got to the storms.

[famartin]

The fall line separated ice from snow that year for sure. Snowed every Wednesday in the LV, and every storm kept getting upgraded in amounts the closer we got to the storms.

Actually it was more east-west. Yes, MDT and ABE got big snows, but NYC did too. PHL had essentially normal snow and I think ACY was much below normal. TTN was about midway between NYC and PHL for its total.

Mind you, the fall line goes from PHL thru TTN to NYC (or thereabouts).

[Sunny and Warm]

Actually it was more east-west. Yes, MDT and ABE got big snows, but NYC did too. PHL had essentially normal snow and I think ACY was much below normal. TTN was about midway between NYC and PHL for its total.

Mind you, the fall line goes from PHL thru TTN to NYC (or thereabouts).

I'm sure you're correct, but when I think of the fall line, it's from just N&W of Philly through TTN, which happened to be where the snow/ice line was that winter.

[famartin]

I'm sure you're correct, but when I think of the fall line, it's from just N&W of Philly through TTN, which happened to be where the snow/ice line was that winter.

Actually it runs right through Philly.

I don't have the exact stats on me, but I believe PHL had about 21" of snow that winter. TTN had just shy of 40", nearly twice as much. NYC had over 50".

[WxLover]

I can recall an ice storm in SE Pa,in the 93-94 Winter, where Elliot Abrams stated on KYW radio the temp. in Salisbury Md. was in the 50's and here in SE pa it was in the high teens and freezing rain. What a gradient.

[Grothar]

Actually it runs right through Philly.

I don't have the exact stats on me, but I believe PHL had about 21" of snow that winter. TTN had just shy of 40", nearly twice as much. NYC had over 50".

Whats ironic is that appears most of the projected snow maps by fellow posters follow this map to some degree. Can anyone provide a comparison?