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Second Half of December Weather Banter and Obs


TheTrials

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Not really. This area averages more snow in the first half of March than the first half of December, despite what recent years have shown.

The past decade has put December ahead of March for most of us.

New Brunswick's averages are 4.8" for December and 4.2" for March. I'll definitely give you the first half of March though for snow potential.

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The past decade has put December ahead of March for most of us.

New Brunswick's averages are 4.8" for December and 4.2" for March. I'll definitely give you the first half of March though for snow potential.

I'm only comparing the first half of December with the first half of March. Comparing the second half of March with the second half of December is no contest.

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Marches have sucked around here lately...Imagine if we got 25" instead of 3-6" for the March '01 debacle or if 12/26 of last year went 50 miles further east and our area got what western NJ got. Our decadal average would have been 2" higher as a whole for March. Which I guess is why we have to look at long term averages.

The past decade has put December ahead of March for most of us.

New Brunswick's averages are 4.8" for December and 4.2" for March. I'll definitely give you the first half of March though for snow potential.

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Marches have sucked around here lately...Imagine if we got 25" instead of 3-6" for the March '01 debacle or if 12/26 of last year went 50 miles further east and our area got what western NJ got. Our decadal average would have been 2" higher as a whole for March. Which I guess is why we have to look at long term averages.

Right. Decadal averagaes don't matter too much, because of such large-scale oscillations. Before the mid-1990s, March had A LOT more snow than December for a while. We're probably going to come out of our snowy December cycle, maybe it's starting this year?

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The storm around Christmas eve is the one to watch if we're going to sneak in something in this god-awful pattern. As modeled right now it's not too bad either. Very tight window for something. http://www.meteo.psu...RF_12z/f228.gif

Very much agree John. Next week will almost definitely be some sort of LC/inland runner, with no anchoring HP in SE Canada to force secondary redevelopment. At least with the 12/24 potential we have some moderately cold air pressing down to our west, allowing upper flow on the east coast to briefly back SSW-NNE. Quite a brief window as you said - all about proper timing here. I wouldn't hold my breath but it's a possibility.

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Very much agree John. Next week will almost definitely be some sort of LC/inland runner, with no anchoring HP in SE Canada to force secondary redevelopment. At least with the 12/24 potential we have some moderately cold air pressing down to our west, allowing upper flow on the east coast to briefly back SSW-NNE. Quite a brief window as you said - all about proper timing here. I wouldn't hold my breath but it's a possibility.

The PV positioning makes me cringe, but I guess it's not too bad to have the ridge axis where it's modeled. It will change in a few hours anyway...but the general longwave pattern around the system gives it a slight chance. Which is more interesting than anything we've seen in the last week or more...so I guess its worth looking at.

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The PV positioning makes me cringe, but I guess it's not too bad to have the ridge axis where it's modeled. It will change in a few hours anyway...but the general longwave pattern around the system gives it a slight chance. Which is more interesting than anything we've seen in the last week or more...so I guess its worth looking at.

Now that you mention it, looking at the H5 progression for the 12/24 event, it amazes me that the storm is so close to the coast. The PV placement is damn near horrible and would probably mean an out to sea storm verbatim.

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Now that you mention it, looking at the H5 progression for the 12/24 event, it amazes me that the storm is so close to the coast. The PV placement is damn near horrible and would probably mean an out to sea storm verbatim.

That could be why there is no real support from the ensemble members at the time frame as well!

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I agree, the threat mid next week will be similar to the one tonight (there isnt one but a brief mix was a concern for a few days). The most anyone can hope for is some mixing at the onset in NW NJ and the Hudson Valley...

The "Christmas Storm" is more intreguing, however how the shortwave picks up the cut off low in the SW is always very finicky. Unfortunately, there looks to be no real cold air source again (and why would there with no blocking) and with the pattern favoring lakes cutters, once again I wouldnt get my hopes up :(

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The ensembles are in pretty good agreement (and have been for some time) of a trough and cold air around the 24th and a ridge to the west so thats certainly good news... high lats still look blahh most likely through the beginning of Januaryy

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Tail end of the 12Z GFS looks great, hotdog.gifhotdog.gif ridge axis over Montana, big trough over the east, energy diving down through the TN Valley, this would fit very well with the progged pattern shift in early January

gfs_namer_384_500_vort_ht.gif

I disagree that the h5 setup that is being depicted on the 12z GFS at 384 hours is "great." It looks nice with a +PNA, but you have massive troughing setting up near Greenland, which is an extremely positive NAO, and the trough that is coming into the east in that timeframe would almost definitely be transient. There was a ridge trying to set up near Greenland in the earlier frames, but it is no match for the PV that escorts the ridge eastbound, and replaces it with a trough. Ironically when a ridge is trying to develop in Greenland, there is no troughing in the east at all at 324 hours.

gfs_namer_324_500_vort_ht.gif

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