andyhb Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 Any situations in the past that you guys think that a TORE could have/should have been issued and wasn't? I am going to exclude Joplin from this since it has already been discussed extensively. A few I can think of would be: - Gallatin, TN (4/7/06) - Parkersburg/N. Waterloo Metro, IA (5/25/08) - Picher, OK; Racine/Neosho, MO (5/10/08) - Castalian Springs/Lafayette, TN (2/5/08) - Atkins/Clinton/Mountain View, AR (2/5/08) - Newbern/Bradford, TN (4/2/06) (Especially considering this cell's tornadic history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadgerWXman Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 Any situation where a tornado has been confirmed on the ground and damage has been witnessed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MGorse Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 For reference, this is what is in the NWS directive regarding tornado warnings and the use of tornado emergencies. In exceedingly rare situations, when a severe threat to human life and catastrophic damage from a tornado is imminent or ongoing, the forecaster may use the terminology "TORNADO EMERGENCY FOR [GEOGRAPHIC AREA]" in the third bullet of the warning. Additionally, in such a situation, this terminology should only be used when reliable sources confirm a tornado, or there is clear radar evidence of the existence of a damaging tornado such as the observation of debris. Section 3.3.4: http://www.nws.noaa....1005011curr.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isohume Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 Unfortunately, that phrase has been overused by some forecasters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyewall Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 Raleigh, NC had its first ever TORE on 4/16 (which was well justified). Broadcasters on the radio said if you are on your way to Raleigh stop where you are and do not approach the city. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master of Disaster Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 I am kind of partial for reserving the term only for metro or highly populated area use where a large tornado is on the ground. Using it just because a tornado is on the ground in an open field seems absurd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icebreaker5221 Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 Any situation where a tornado has been confirmed on the ground and damage has been witnessed. I am kind of partial for reserving the term only for metro or highly populated area use where a large tornado is on the ground. Using it just because a tornado is on the ground in an open field seems absurd. I say the best answer is somewhere in between these two. A tornado on the ground with damage witnessed to a grain farm approaching nothing but open field probably should not qualify. At the same time, a mile wide wedge approaching a town of 1000 people should definitely still warrant at TORE, even if its not a "highly populated area". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master of Disaster Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 I say the best answer is somewhere in between these two. A tornado on the ground with damage witnessed to a grain farm approaching nothing but open field probably should not qualify. At the same time, a mile wide wedge approaching a town of 1000 people should definitely still warrant at TORE, even if its not a "highly populated area". I think you have a valid point there. But the question is, are we at a point where confirmed reports can be relayed to the NWS in time to do this? I would venture to say we are close with Facebook and Twitter. Hell, my kids find out when a friend has broken up with someone 30 seconds after it happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtticaFanatica Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 Any situation where a tornado has been confirmed on the ground and damage has been witnessed. So anytime a tornado hits something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyhb Posted December 8, 2011 Author Share Posted December 8, 2011 At the same time, a mile wide wedge approaching a town of 1000 people should definitely still warrant at TORE, even if its not a "highly populated area". Bulls-eye. Parkersburg/New Hartford tornado was a glaring exception to that. Unfortunately, that phrase has been overused by some forecasters. It seems personal forecaster preferences sometimes affect this decision, which is a bit of a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hurricaneman Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 I would think any tornado ef2 or higher in a Major City or any ef4+ in an town where the population is over 10000. Ill give some examples that weren't posted above Springfield, MA June 1 2011 was an ef3 Minneapolis, MN May 22 2011 was an ef3 Atlanta, GA March 13 2008 was an ef2 Salt Lake City, UT August 11 1999 was an ef2 Indianapolis, IN May 30 2004 due to the Indy 500 ef3 The one out of those that I could have pictured the most being issued a TORE would have been the 2004 indy 500, but all of them should have been considered for it IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtticaFanatica Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 I would think any tornado ef2 or higher in a Major City or any ef4+ in an town where the population is over 10000. Ill give some examples that weren't posted above Springfield, MA June 1 2011 was an ef3 Minneapolis, MN May 22 2011 was an ef3 Atlanta, GA March 13 2008 was an ef2 Salt Lake City, UT August 11 1999 was an ef2 Indianapolis, IN May 30 2004 due to the Indy 500 ef3 The one out of those that I could have pictured the most being issued a TORE would have been the 2004 indy 500, but all of them should have been considered for it IMO How do you rate tornadoes in real-time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hurricaneman Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 How do you rate tornadoes in real-time? no one really can, its all really guesswork unless there is ground confirmation of a large and extremely dangerous tornado headed for a major city Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyhb Posted December 11, 2011 Author Share Posted December 11, 2011 I would think any tornado ef2 or higher in a Major City or any ef4+ in an town where the population is over 10000. Ill give some examples that weren't posted above Springfield, MA June 1 2011 was an ef3 Minneapolis, MN May 22 2011 was an ef3 Atlanta, GA March 13 2008 was an ef2 Salt Lake City, UT August 11 1999 was an ef2 Indianapolis, IN May 30 2004 due to the Indy 500 ef3 The one out of those that I could have pictured the most being issued a TORE would have been the 2004 indy 500, but all of them should have been considered for it IMO No it wasn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hurricaneman Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 oops, my bad. I had another tornado on my mind when that was written, I meant to put the Minneapolis one as an ef2 so I will try not to make that mistake again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tornadotony Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 oops, my bad. I had another tornado on my mind when that was written, I meant to put the Minneapolis one as an ef2 so I will try not to make that mistake again Nope. It was an EF1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eskimo Joe Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 I am kind of partial for reserving the term only for metro or highly populated area use where a large tornado is on the ground. Using it just because a tornado is on the ground in an open field seems absurd. Compromise between you and turtle's opinion would be any large population center AOA 10,000 people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Rent Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 I say the best answer is somewhere in between these two. A tornado on the ground with damage witnessed to a grain farm approaching nothing but open field probably should not qualify. At the same time, a mile wide wedge approaching a town of 1000 people should definitely still warrant at TORE, even if its not a "highly populated area". Instead of highly populated, maybe it should be densely populated area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tornadotony Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Instead of highly populated, maybe it should be densely populated area. Or no areas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyhb Posted December 13, 2011 Author Share Posted December 13, 2011 Compromise between you and turtle's opinion would be any large population center AOA 10,000 people. That leaves a lot of situations exposed as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosier Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 I would think any tornado ef2 or higher in a Major City or any ef4+ in an town where the population is over 10000. Ill give some examples that weren't posted above Springfield, MA June 1 2011 was an ef3 Minneapolis, MN May 22 2011 was an ef3 Atlanta, GA March 13 2008 was an ef2 Salt Lake City, UT August 11 1999 was an ef2 Indianapolis, IN May 30 2004 due to the Indy 500 ef3 The one out of those that I could have pictured the most being issued a TORE would have been the 2004 indy 500, but all of them should have been considered for it IMO For the historical record, the 2004 Indy tornado was F2 and struck several miles from the race track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidewinder Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 I was witness to this tornado form in Morgan Co., and it went south of the track, thank god. I concur one could have been issued for this storm on that day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosier Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 I was witness to this tornado form in Morgan Co., and it went south of the track, thank god. I concur one could have been issued for this storm on that day. I can only recall the tornado emergency wording from IND on one date...9/20/02. If you subscribe to the tornado emergency concept then this would've been a good candidate due to the population in harms way even though it missed the track by a relatively wide margin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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