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Early December Pattern Discussion


Baroclinic Zone

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Pattern looks pretty tough in the long range. Unless we depend on some sort of lucky event...I think the month may be a loss cause. I'm not being A Debbie D...but I'm not hanging my hopes on some sort of renegade lucky storm. Hopefully I'm wrong.

Our winter probably hinges on 12/30-1/15.

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I'm not far from that point.....

There's no reason to spend all this time on here..there's nothing positive, you get excited..you think a colder winter pattern might set in..and then the models completely take it away from you. The Euro weeklies are awful thru week 4. I love winter , but the writing is on the wall. Then you get all the neagtivity on here and it just makes it worse. At least for me..It puts me in an awful mood, and it's just not healthy

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There's no reason to spend all this time on here..there's nothing positive, you get excited..you think a colder winter pattern might set in..and then the models completely take it away from you. The Euro weeklies are awful thru week 4. I love winter , but the writing is on the wall. Then you get all the neagtivity on here and it just makes it worse. At least for e..It puts me in an awful mood, and it's just not healthy

I just wish it felt more like the Christmas season. It feels like fooking Easter.

Sometimes these crazy +AO patterns flip after 4-6 weeks, which possibly means it could occur in January. If we can get a decent January trough March...that is ok by me.

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I just wish it felt more like the Christmas season. It feels like fooking Easter.

Sometimes these crazy +AO patterns flip after 4-6 weeks, which possibly means it could occur in January. If we can get a decent January trough March...that is ok by me.

Ninas typically have cold Jans... we shall see.

As Jerry said, sometimes a pattern is just tough to break. Seems we're in one that always comes in warmer than modeled at just about all temporal horizons. Sad.

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Very depressing. If you guys arnt getting snow...then im sure as hell not

I kept hearing how the ssts were conducive to a good nao...how is that working out?

Problem is the stratosphere is very cold and the vortex is in a horrible position to get any blocking ridges to form. If that vortex moves south near hudsons bay then we will have much better chances to get a good west based -NAO.

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There's no reason to spend all this time on here..there's nothing positive, you get excited..you think a colder winter pattern might set in..and then the models completely take it away from you. The Euro weeklies are awful thru week 4. I love winter , but the writing is on the wall. Then you get all the neagtivity on here and it just makes it worse. At least for me..It puts me in an awful mood, and it's just not healthy

OR you can just realize we have no control over the weather and enjoy it and your family. Look how much fun you had this weekend.

I say that now but if the pattern doesn't change by 1/10ish I'm going to lose it too. I always felt December was a lost cause...but do believe we see a snap back in mid January or at least feel there's a chance towards mid-late January we get into a favorable pattern.

This is an unmitigated disaster but has been a pretty well advertised one for a month or more.

Weathafella you have to admit we've seen this before particularly in the 80s when the pattern was going to change and never did for like ten years :)

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OR you can just realize we have no control over the weather and enjoy it and your family. Look how much fun you had this weekend.

I say that now but if the pattern doesn't change by 1/10ish I'm going to lose it too. I always felt December was a lost cause...but do believe we see a snap back in mid January or at least feel there's a chance towards mid-late January we get into a favorable pattern.

This is an unmitigated disaster but has been a pretty well advertised one for a month or more.

Weathafella you have to admit we've seen this before particularly in the 80s when the pattern was going to change and never did for like ten years :)

lol...what a dreadful stretch of years that was. though i'd take 1987 just for the jan blizzard that happened out here.

hopefully we aren't headed toward an entire winter of discontent. i won't even pretend to know whether that's the case though - the system is so complex and there's so much we don't know...there are some extraordinarily smart long-term guys who struggle with month-to-month forecasts.

i'm comfortable with about 2 to 3 weeks worth of looking ahead.

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lol...what a dreadful stretch of years that was. though i'd take 1987 just for the jan blizzard that happened out here.

hopefully we aren't headed toward an entire winter of discontent. i won't even pretend to know whether that's the case though - the system is so complex and there's so much we don't know...there are some extraordinarily smart long-term guys who struggle with month-to-month forecasts.

i'm comfortable with about 2 to 3 weeks worth of looking ahead.

That's how I feel. I'm not a long range guy, but sometimes there are signals that can help with forecasts that may be for a few months or more.

I just wish it would feel like the Holiday season. I'm honestly no where near a "Holiday mood" right now, and that is probably because it feels like Easter.

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lol...what a dreadful stretch of years that was. though i'd take 1987 just for the jan blizzard that happened out here.

hopefully we aren't headed toward an entire winter of discontent. i won't even pretend to know whether that's the case though - the system is so complex and there's so much we don't know...there are some extraordinarily smart long-term guys who struggle with month-to-month forecasts.

i'm comfortable with about 2 to 3 weeks worth of looking ahead.

Phil what year had the back to back big snowstorms down here? Long before my time...was that in the 80s or early 90s? A couple of whoppers in the 15-30" range if I recall.

That's how I feel. I'm not a long range guy, but sometimes there are signals that can help with forecasts that may be for a few months or more.

I just wish it would feel like the Holiday season. I'm honestly no where near a "Holiday mood" right now, and that is probably because it feels like Easter.

It's nuts isn't it? I'm fine with at this point only in the sense that I'm not using any heat. I also feel better about the choice in early November to take this cruise Xmas week while the outlaws stay at the house on the hunch that the weather wasn't going to be skitastic.

Where it goes from here who knows. Let's see what this model run at 12z brings us, always a chance for a colder solution but....it's 60. I have no idea whether January will actually be colder beyond the recollection of living here for 40 years and remembering many years where Christmas was a roast to have it get cold in January. Sadly though I never ever remember this type of sustained jungle heat in Nov/Dec.

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Phil what year had the back to back big snowstorms down here? Long before my time...was that in the 80s or early 90s? A couple of whoppers in the 15-30" range if I recall.

It's nuts isn't it? I'm fine with at this point only in the sense that I'm not using any heat. I also feel better about the choice in early November to take this cruise Xmas week while the outlaws stay at the house on the hunch that the weather wasn't going to be skitastic.

Where it goes from here who knows. Let's see what this model run at 12z brings us, always a chance for a colder solution but....it's 60. I have no idea whether January will actually be colder beyond the recollection of living here for 40 years and remembering many years where Christmas was a roast to have it get cold in January. Sadly though I never ever remember this type of sustained jungle heat in Nov/Dec.

87. we had the big one in january and then another one later in the season...think it was the second half of february. both were supposed to suck and then shifted at the last minute. IIRC, the january one was supposed to crush the interior, ended up way east and we got blasted.

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87. we had the big one in january and then another one later in the season...think it was the second half of february. both were supposed to suck and then shifted at the last minute. IIRC, the january one was supposed to crush the interior, ended up way east and we got blasted.

Ok thanks. I remember the early 80s for one reason...sitting in class looking at the sun through cirrus wondering when the 6-12" of snow was going to fall that was forecast. Happened so many times.....

we can probably merge the "winter" threat thread with the pattern thread.

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87. we had the big one in january and then another one later in the season...think it was the second half of february. both were supposed to suck and then shifted at the last minute. IIRC, the january one was supposed to crush the interior, ended up way east and we got blasted.

Wasn't there a storm in Feb '89 that did the same? It could be the one in '87 that you are taking about.

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