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Early December Pattern Discussion


Baroclinic Zone

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I agree about the early THU wintry mix potential. At the very least, it has to be watched. It wouldn't be anything too significant but it could be a problem for someone.

Models are once again not handling the southern stream feature very well day 6-10. ECMWF has some company from a few GFS ensemble members (not all were quick to eject that wave out like the op). We'll see what the euro ensembles do.

We are going to ride your back on this one. You are all we've got. Take us to the promised land. Rutgers FTW?

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We are going to ride your back on this one. You are all we've got. Take us to the promised land. Rutgers FTW?

Oh boy...axesmiley.png

With no blocking, this one is going to come down to good timing again. You can see that the GGEM, UKMET, ECMWF and a few GFS ensemble members are leaving that southern stream system behind with a very progressive/active northern stream. It is one after another, so expect more crazy medium range solutions to come.

Of course, when is that not the case? It's like, no sh-t, HM!

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Oh boy...axesmiley.png

With no blocking, this one is going to come down to good timing again. You can see that the GGEM, UKMET, ECMWF and a few GFS ensemble members are leaving that southern stream system behind with a very progressive/active northern stream. It is one after another, so expect more crazy medium range solutions to come.

Of course, when is that not the case? It's like, no sh-t, HM!

It def does look like the majority of the modelling and their respective ensemble members are trying to conjure something up in the day 10-12 time frame. Hopefully it doesn';t end up as another Northern Maine snow event as we so often see with no blocking.

Seems like there's growing concensus among the LR mets of some SSW as we head twds end of month. If so,, Jan may end up alot more wintry than what many are forecasting now

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I agree about the early THU wintry mix potential. At the very least, it has to be watched. It wouldn't be anything too significant but it could be a problem for someone.

Models are once again not handling the southern stream feature very well day 6-10. ECMWF has some company from a few GFS ensemble members (not all were quick to eject that wave out like the op). We'll see what the euro ensembles do.

I was hoping more in the 18th-20th..but it will come down to how the models handle that pesky sw cutoff. I do see what you mean about the 22-23rd or so. There is some ridging into the GOA which hopefully can deliver the cold far enough south. It seems that the SW cutoff will be there and it will eject disturbances out from time to time...but models will be horrible. GFS will probably suppress it all, and the euro will always have the bias in the southwest of digging the low to far south. What a nightmare...lol. With no blocking..we know what the risks can be.

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I was hoping more in the 18th-20th..but it will come down to how the models handle that pesky sw cutoff. I do see what you mean about the 22-23rd or so. There is some ridging into the GOA which hopefully can deliver the cold far enough south. It seems that the SW cutoff will be there and it will eject disturbances out from time to time...but models will be horrible. GFS will probably suppress it all, and the euro will always have the bias in the southwest of digging the low to far south. What a nightmare...lol. With no blocking..we know what the risks can be.

It could be that soon (18th-20th) but then don't expect it to ride up the coast or come anywhere near us. If it phases with a northern s/w that soon, it will be a Midwest problem (12z ECMWF yesterday).

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It could be that soon (18th-20th) but then don't expect it to ride up the coast or come anywhere near us. If it phases with a northern s/w that soon, it will be a Midwest problem (12z ECMWF yesterday).

That's what I'm afraid and alluded to earlier...a very thread the needle situation. Even 2-4" followed by rain would work for me...just something to break up this pattern.

But with that cutoff in the sw..I suppose timing will be all over the place. What looks like one period where we could see something turns into another. Models will be awful with that feature, as we know. Nothing really impresses me at all right now and we're going to need some good ridging into the GOA in order to even get a SWFE. However as usual, we'll hope that any "threat" will pan out for something.

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Sunny and boring weather continues up here in C/NNE. Few inches of snow on the ground from about Plymouth NH north and west. With this pattern I don't bother looking at the models. Just fire up the computer earlyeach afternoon, read a page or two of this thread, get depressed and forget about the weather for another 24 hours. Winter sports enthuastists (probably spelled wrong) up here are going into panic mode, no good ice on the lakes, no snowmobiling and only limited skiing. The ski resorts must be spending alot of money trying to make snow in marginal cold conditions. I'll check back tomorrow for another depressing AMWX weather read! Chow... Gene

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That's what I'm afraid and alluded to earlier...a very thread the needle situation. Even 2-4" followed by rain would work for me...just something to break up this pattern.

But with that cutoff in the sw..I suppose timing will be all over the place. What looks like one period where we could see something turns into another. Models will be awful with that feature, as we know. Nothing really impresses me at all right now and we're going to need some good ridging into the GOA in order to even get a SWFE. However as usual, we'll hope that any "threat" will pan out for something.

The only real news today from the global / tropical front is that the MJO / phase 5 convection induced East Asian MT is occurring. We'll see what that can do this week (probably nothing, lol).

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Sunny and boring weather continues up here in C/NNE. Few inches of snow on the ground from about Plymouth NH north and west. With this pattern I don't bother looking at the models. Just fire up the computer earlyeach afternoon, read a page or two of this thread, get depressed and forget about the weather for another 24 hours. Winter sports enthuastists (probably spelled wrong) up here are going into panic mode, no good ice on the lakes, no snowmobiling and only limited skiing. The ski resorts must be spending alot of money trying to make snow in marginal cold conditions. I'll check back tomorrow for another depressing AMWX weather read! Chow... Gene

Ditto...me too! Weather is boring most of the time and fun some of the time.

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Perhaps I am a complete dumb arse for predicting accumulating snow dec 22-23 in New England, given the pattern, but I still think the threat is on.

Will this upcoming scenario end up being like Dec 3-8 all over again in terms of evolution? I have no idea.

A little panic has been taking over here during our record warm fall that has produced over 2 feet of snow for CNE and NNE and parts of SNE. I bet we have a widespread 4+ snowfall over most of New England before xmas. Gradients can look pretty warm from far out eh?

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Euro ensembles offer a split flow pattern late in the period. By that, I mean some ridging in NW Canada and a strong cutoff low in the southwest US. If the ridging in Canada is strong enough, that may offer the hope of the period HM likes..or possibly afterwards like 25th or 26th, but again..just speculation. It's still not a pretty pattern, but it doesn't hurt to have ridging in NW Canada. With the +AO and sw trough, the se ridge is still alive and well, so you know what that can mean.

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Euro ensembles offer a split flow pattern late in the period. By that, I mean some ridging in NW Canada and a strong cutoff low in the southwest US. If the ridging in Canada is strong enough, that may offer the hope of the period HM likes..or possibly afterwards like 25th or 26th, but again..just speculation. It's still not a pretty pattern, but it doesn't hurt to have ridging in NW Canada. With the +AO and sw trough, the se ridge is still alive and well, so you know what that can mean.

Just catching up after a 48 hour weather hiatus. Glad to see nothing has changed from the all out torch-assault.

It's sad when I'm looking at 11-15 day ensemble output and saying "well, it's not that bad" when most winters we'd be all in agreement those patterns are horrible.

12z Euro offers the hope for something around 12/22???

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Just catching up after a 48 hour weather hiatus. Glad to see nothing has changed from the all out torch-assault.

It's sad when I'm looking at 11-15 day ensemble output and saying "well, it's not that bad" when most winters we'd be all in agreement those patterns are horrible.

12z Euro offers the hope for something around 12/22???

Yeah there was some improvements, but the overall pattern still looks hostile. The only difference is that NW Canada looks better and may offer a chance for the nrn jet to dip into the US, but it would have to be timed perfectly since the se ridge flexes. I thought something was also hinted at the 25-26, but looking for signs in the ensemble mean that far out is an act of desperation...lol.

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I agree with lc /jb and steve on big time weather pattern change coming in the next two weeks . Models wont see it for while but will likely have white christmas for sne and the Northeast area. When the change does come this month it will come hard with snow after snow . I still say above normal snowfall for Southern New England area .

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A little panic has been taking over here during our record warm fall that has produced over 2 feet of snow for CNE and NNE and parts of SNE. I bet we have a widespread 4+ snowfall over most of New England before xmas. Gradients can look pretty warm from far out eh?

Of those 2 feet, the vast majority has occurred prior to 11/1. The pattern blows....no need to sugar coat it. The 11/23 storm threaded the needle for you guys but overall it's a pattern only it's mother could love.

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Of those 2 feet, the vast majority has occurred prior to 11/1. The pattern blows....no need to sugar coat it. The 11/23 storm threaded the needle for you guys but overall it's a pattern only it's mother could love.

I don't like a winter to blow its load too quickly....much prefer to have a long warm fall and warm pattern now. Once it changes we are in for a good ride. I think it changes by the 25th as you predicted. Yesterday was the 10th, very cold night last night, my pond frozen all day...the really strong + anomolies are gone. It's on schedule Rebbe.

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