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December 18-20 Potential Talking Points


earthlight

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big storm? That looks kinda weak with a positively tilted trough

Since when was this thread supposed to be about busts from last winter (that really weren't busts, rather long-range progs that never even made it into the mid-range...?)

Reading about how 1/8/2010 was a "bust" is obnoxious when the topic at hand is the upcoming storm which has no relation to these past events. Regarding potential, I don't know why people are panicking--many people have already posted (all across the board, I don't know about this specific thread) the long-range output of the GFS for the events last winter, all of which were initially forecast to go significantly south, even below DC. I'd much rather have the GFS south and east at this time frame, and while last night's runs were exciting, I began feeling uneasy about a changeover as you do not want the GFS the farthest N&W out of the models.

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To me, the NAM looks like it's heading towards a surpressed solution. Not totally worth much, given it's reputation at this range, so I guess we can file that under "whatever" for now..

looks like there is more digging at h5 over the northern plains....much more so than the GFS

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I noticed Mt. Holly is going with a 30% pop for Sat night thru Sunday night. Upton has no mention of precip.

Mt Holly AFD out.

THURSDAY'S CLIPPER IN THE UNDERCARD FOR THIS FORECAST. A POTENTIAL

NOR'EASTER FOR THE WEEKEND IS THE MAIN EVENT.

FOR THURSDAY, MODELS HAVE BEEN INCHING NORTH WITH THE THREAT OF

LIGHT SNOW. THIS AFTERNOON'S GRIDS REFLECT THAT IDEA WITH LIGHT SNOW

UP TO ABOUT WILMINGTON AND ATLANTIC CITY.

FOR THE WEEKEND, THE 00Z AND 06Z GFS RUNS BOTH SUPPLY THE REGION

WITH A BIG-TIME WINTER EVENT. THE 00Z AND 12Z ECMWF ARE MUCH FURTHER

SUPPRESSED AND ONLY PROVIDE SNOW LOVERS WITH HOPES AND DREAMS. THE

GEM IS ALSO SUPPRESSED, BUT STILL BRUSHES SOME OF THE AREA WITH

WINTER PRECIPITATION. ADMITTEDLY, THE O6Z GEFS KIND OF TAKES THE

AVERAGE OF THE ABOVE...A WESTERN ATLANTIC CYCLONE...CLOSE ENOUGH TO

PRODUCE JUST CHANCE POPS AT THIS TIME.

AS FAR ANY ACCUMULATING SNOW...THE SOUTH AND EASTERN ZONES HAVE THE

BEST CHANCE THROUGH THE FORECAST PERIOD WITH BOTH THE CLIPPER AND

POSSIBLE WEEKEND COASTAL EVENT.

AS FOR TEMPERATURES...TEENS AND 20S WILL BE REAL COMMON DURING THE

OVERNIGHT HOURS WITH 20S AND 30S FOR HIGHS...BASICALLY A

CONTINUATION OF BELOW NORMAL READINGS.

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just an fyi - NOAA's updated AFD

.LONG TERM /THURSDAY NIGHT THROUGH MONDAY/...

-- Changed Discussion --THE 00Z ECMWF WAS USED TO CONSTRUCT THINGS THROUGH ABOUT DAY FOUR. A

TRANSITION WAS THEN MADE TOWARD THE 06Z GEFS MEAN. WHILE THE DETAILS

DIFFER, THE ONE THING THAT`S PRETTY CONSISTENT IS THE SUPPRESSED

POLAR JET ACROSS THE NATION.

THURSDAY`S CLIPPER IN THE UNDERCARD FOR THIS FORECAST. A POTENTIAL

NOR`EASTER FOR THE WEEKEND IS THE MAIN EVENT.

FOR THURSDAY, MODELS HAVE BEEN INCHING NORTH WITH THE THREAT OF

LIGHT SNOW. THIS AFTERNOON`S GRIDS REFLECT THAT IDEA WITH LIGHT SNOW

UP TO ABOUT WILMINGTON AND ATLANTIC CITY.

FOR THE WEEKEND, THE 00Z AND 06Z GFS RUNS BOTH SUPPLY THE REGION

WITH A BIG-TIME WINTER EVENT. THE 00Z AND 12Z ECMWF ARE MUCH FURTHER

SUPPRESSED AND ONLY PROVIDE SNOW LOVERS WITH HOPES AND DREAMS. THE

GEM IS ALSO SUPPRESSED, BUT STILL BRUSHES SOME OF THE AREA WITH

WINTER PRECIPITATION. ADMITTEDLY, THE O6Z GEFS KIND OF TAKES THE

AVERAGE OF THE ABOVE...A WESTERN ATLANTIC CYCLONE...CLOSE ENOUGH TO

PRODUCE JUST CHANCE POPS AT THIS TIME.

AS FAR ANY ACCUMULATING SNOW...THE SOUTH AND EASTERN ZONES HAVE THE

BEST CHANCE THROUGH THE FORECAST PERIOD WITH BOTH THE CLIPPER AND

POSSIBLE WEEKEND COASTAL EVENT.

AS FOR TEMPERATURES...TEENS AND 20S WILL BE REAL COMMON DURING THE

OVERNIGHT HOURS WITH 20S AND 30S FOR HIGHS...BASICALLY A

CONTINUATION OF BELOW NORMAL READINGS.-- End Changed Discussion --

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doesn't it also look like its maybe 6-12 hours ahead with the northern stream?

Also I do like the ridging out ahead of the digging s/w

yeah, its definitely quicker (like the EC?).....i was gonna make mention about the ridging out ahead of the digging shortwave....

I actually like the 84HR NAM panels....but its the 84HR NAM,

Kinda has the look of a potential miller b, no??? Maybe im crazy, but it looks like it wants to phase earlier but the 50/50 wont let it cut up....i dont have the charts to extrapolate....does anyone have the extended nam?

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Yes--the GFS was really de-amplified, more so than any other model.

Can't wait to see the 18z gfs. It will be interesting to see if corrects itself and trends back towards its 00z and 06z solutions. I'm a tad suprised to see Mt. Holly playing it conservative at this point when they are usually alot quicker to jump on board in the long range.

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john, should we start model threads to talk bout the different models so we don't clutter this up or do you want it here?

Just as an experiment for this storm, lets try and keep all the regional storm discussion in this thread regarding this upcoming storm. This thread can be used for local model discussion and storm discussion/analogs/etc.

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Although in any La Nina, having a solution unfold as the 0z and 06z gfs have shown is very rare,

this may be that one case where the typical climatology of the ENSO state gets trumped by the ideal state of the West Based -NAO block. The block is so strong and perfectly placed that it allows the PV to push much further south and sets it up to potentially phase with the southern shortwave.

There is substantial evidence that there will be a storm in 6 days due to the extent of the model agreements. I'd rather have some models show a suppressed solution than a direct hit 6 days out any day. Just like last year's December storm, the models gradually brought it closer to the coast and further north to give us a good hit. This may unfold the exact same way.

I know you would usually want a +PNA with a -NAO/-AO but that almost never happens in a Nina of this strength, but that's OK. The Atlantic is capable of producing an EC snowstorm when it's able to overpower an unfavorable pacific. The fact that we could see snow at almost the exact same time as last year is quite a coincidence too and it's even more ironic that the pattern we were in last December to the one in this December is very different (strong El Nino vs. strong La Nina) but still favorable enough to produce a MECS/HECS.

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