doncat Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Been below freezing seven times here since end of October with lowest being 29.9. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forkyfork Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 some plants can come back after frost damage... i'm in a western nyc suburb and i have flowers blooming as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpha5 Posted December 8, 2011 Author Share Posted December 8, 2011 Been below freezing seven times here since end of October with lowest being 29.9. my point exactly....NYC has yet to reach 32, but SI has 7 times. Are they that climatologically different? No, of course not. My point is that we should no longer rely on KNYC for sensitive temperature measurements Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTrials Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 man, sun is still warm, even in December. Not cold out at all today. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTrials Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 LOL ********************STORM TOTAL SNOWFALL******************** LOCATION STORM TOTAL TIME/DATE COMMENTS SNOWFALL OF /INCHES/ MEASUREMENT NEW JERSEY ...PASSAIC COUNTY... WEST MILFORD 1.0 250 AM 12/08 TRAINED SPOTTER NEW YORK ...ORANGE COUNTY... GREENVILLE 1.0 624 AM 12/08 TRAINED SPOTTER ********************STORM TOTAL RAINFALL******************** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cfa Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Really? You think only the suburbs north and west went below freezing? If JFK hit 32, then i guarantee central and northern nassau were colder, especially eastern. All of suffolk has been in the 20's, check it out, even FMG. I think islip went down to 28. Eastern Queens definitely went below 32, near cunningham park, jamaica estate, douglaston, etc... I didn't know Islip went to 28, that's interesting and it probably explains why the grass is so brown out there. I almost always forget about the North Shore to be honest, I forget that it's usually colder. However I have yet to go below 33/34, the most I saw here (SE Queens) was a light frost (twice). This should change shortly, sadly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psv88 Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 I didn't know Islip went to 28, that's interesting and it probably explains why the grass is so brown out there. I almost always forget about the North Shore to be honest, I forget that it's usually colder. However I have yet to go below 33/34, the most I saw here (SE Queens) was a light frost (twice). This should change shortly, sadly. Yea as soon as you get north of southern state it cools off a lot, except when north wind sometimes, like october snowstorm, extreme northshore was warmer. And obviuosly in the summer when the sea breeze kicks in. Id be interested to see if it averages out in the end, if the sea breeze compensates for the warmer winter temp. Id guess that average temps were lower on the south shore for the year because the sea breeze has a larger effect in summer than the ocean does in the winter...as compared to the north shore that is...a good example would be LGA v. JFK...often winter storms LGA 5 degrees colder, in summer sometimes 10+ warmer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTrials Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 AG3 can take his fishing boat out and see some snow maybe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsley Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 I didn't know Islip went to 28, that's interesting and it probably explains why the grass is so brown out there. I almost always forget about the North Shore to be honest, I forget that it's usually colder. However I have yet to go below 33/34, the most I saw here (SE Queens) was a light frost (twice). This should change shortly, sadly. ISP, along with most of Suffolk still radiates extremely well on a clear, calm night. Dec. 2nd it was 28 at ISP while 39 at NYC and LGA. While that spread is a little high, I'd bet most "radiating nights" it's 8 or 9 degrees colder at ISP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momza Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Yea we've still got plenty of flowers and green leaves in the city. This weekend should be the death knell for them, however. Lawns on my block this morning looked terrific. Very green. Amazing this time of year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pazzo83 Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 my point exactly....NYC has yet to reach 32, but SI has 7 times. Are they that climatologically different? No, of course not. My point is that we should no longer rely on KNYC for sensitive temperature measurements Why? At least 2-3 million people live in an area representative of where KNYC is. Plus, it being in a large park makes it just a notch cooler than the rest of Manhattan, usually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pazzo83 Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Saturday night it is going to be close for the park. NWS now calling for 30 instead of upper 20s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormlover74 Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Yes and 40 tomorrow night, low 30s Sunday night. So right now Saturday night is the only real shot. It will probably end up at 31...instead of focusing on going below freezing how about the first low in the 20s? Might be after the 21st at this point. Saturday night it is going to be close for the park. NWS now calling for 30 instead of upper 20s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpha5 Posted December 8, 2011 Author Share Posted December 8, 2011 Why? At least 2-3 million people live in an area representative of where KNYC is. Plus, it being in a large park makes it just a notch cooler than the rest of Manhattan, usually. all I'm trying to say is that I find the "NYC first freeze" date to now be irrelevant because of UHI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pazzo83 Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 all I'm trying to say is that I find the "NYC first freeze" date to now be irrelevant because of UHI. UHI has been part of the climate here for some time, so I'm not sure what logic you are using to arrive at such a conclusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpha5 Posted December 8, 2011 Author Share Posted December 8, 2011 UHI has been part of the climate here for some time, so I'm not sure what logic you are using to arrive at such a conclusion. UHI is stronger than it has ever been in the city, even though its obviously been around for a while. I'm simply saying that temps (lows especially) are so easily corrupted when you have 8 million+ people roaming around. For accuracy's sake, why not take measurements in a place like SI or some of the outer boroughs? Why keep measurements in a place that only skews reality and reflects a small part of the actual city temps, much less those of the suburbs. I understand that UHI is now the way of life in parts of manhattan, so in that sense, KNYC does a good job representing those areas, but it does not do a good job of representing the city, or region as a whole. No sub-freezing temps on December 8th? Really, do you think that accurately reflects conditions in the NYC area? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pazzo83 Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 UHI is stronger than it has ever been in the city, even though its obviously been around for a while. I'm simply saying that temps (lows especially) are so easily corrupted when you have 8 million+ people roaming around. For accuracy's sake, why not take measurements in a place like SI or some of the outer boroughs? Why keep measurements in a place that only skews reality and reflects a small part of the actual city temps, much less those of the suburbs. I understand that UHI is now the way of life in parts of manhattan, so in that sense, KNYC does a good job representing those areas, but it does not do a good job of representing the city, or region as a whole. No sub-freezing temps on December 8th? Really, do you think that accurately reflects conditions in the NYC area? Firstly, NYC has had between 7 and 8.2 million people since 1930. So NYC and its immediate surroundings have been fully developed for practically the entirety of the 20th Century. So from a historical perspective, taking temps in the UHI is accurate as this is modern New York. Secondly, we have other reporting stations in other ares of the city and the 'burbs to reflect the conditions in those areas. For New York CITY, the reporting station in Central Park is completely appropriate. Why should we use some station in Staten Island or the 'burbs for the conditions for the city itself? That suggestion defies any logical explanation. Most people in New York City live in heavily urbanized areas consistent with the conditions experienced in Central Park. Now if they put the station in Times Square (which probably hasn't even gotten below 40 yet), then you might have an argument. Being in the park to some extent mitigates the fact that you are located in a concrete jungle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pazzo83 Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 And yes, I think a lowest temp of 32/33 is reflective of the conditions experienced in MOST of NYC. We still have flowers and trees/groundcover with green leaves all over the place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supermeh Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 AG3 can take his fishing boat out and see some snow maybe You should change your sig to read "Winter begins in 380 days" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTrials Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 You should change your sig to read "Winter begins in 380 days" Nah the tide will turn in January. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psv88 Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Firstly, NYC has had between 7 and 8.2 million people since 1930. So NYC and its immediate surroundings have been fully developed for practically the entirety of the 20th Century. So from a historical perspective, taking temps in the UHI is accurate as this is modern New York. Secondly, we have other reporting stations in other ares of the city and the 'burbs to reflect the conditions in those areas. For New York CITY, the reporting station in Central Park is completely appropriate. Why should we use some station in Staten Island or the 'burbs for the conditions for the city itself? That suggestion defies any logical explanation. Most people in New York City live in heavily urbanized areas consistent with the conditions experienced in Central Park. Now if they put the station in Times Square (which probably hasn't even gotten below 40 yet), then you might have an argument. Being in the park to some extent mitigates the fact that you are located in a concrete jungle. Agreed. New York City UHI hasnt changed much in 80+ years, what has changed is the extent. Queens used to be farms when my grandfather moved out there in the 1940s...and was actually considered no-mans land. Using Staten island for NYC would be the least accurate measurement anywhere in the city other than perhaps top of the empire state building...central park reading may be a little cool as you said, since most of the city doesnt radiate at all, but the park does to a degree. Now on the island, UHI has changed in the past 30 years, with rapid development, but i think in nassau it leveled off earlier probably 25 years ago all the land was long gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pazzo83 Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Agreed. New York City UHI hasnt changed much in 80+ years, what has changed is the extent. Queens used to be farms when my grandfather moved out there in the 1940s...and was actually considered no-mans land. Using Staten island for NYC would be the least accurate measurement anywhere in the city other than perhaps top of the empire state building...central park reading may be a little cool as you said, since most of the city doesnt radiate at all, but the park does to a degree. Now on the island, UHI has changed in the past 30 years, with rapid development, but i think in nassau it leveled off earlier probably 25 years ago all the land was long gone. The micro-climate here is insane, something I've never really experienced, even living in DC (which has a pretty ridiculous UHI as well, and incidentally, has also not gotten below freezing yet, at least at DCA). In the mountains of VA our first sub-freezing temps were usually in mid-late Sept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CooL Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Lol @ trials and A-town going at it. Something tells me that will be the theme this year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psv88 Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Lol @ trials and A-town going at it. Something tells me that will be the theme this year Yea. In a winter with no snow and a terrible pattern weenies will try to find a storm in every model run. Hopefully things turn around and we can all be on the same page... It doesnt even feel like winter outside. I have yet to feel truly cold, it seems like early november Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CooL Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Yea. In a winter with no snow and a terrible pattern weenies will try to find a storm in every model run. Hopefully things turn around and we can all be on the same page... It doesnt even feel like winter outside. I have yet to feel truly cold, it seems like early november yeah agreed..i wish i had what DT is smoking lol because i see nothing encouraging on that map. i think this stat is related to why we have yet to see any arctic air here "On Sunday the AO hit +5.647 standard deviations above normal. That is the 2nd highest EVER (well since record keeping began in 1950) for the arctic oscillation" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momza Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Yea. In a winter with no snow and a terrible pattern weenies will try to find a storm in every model run. Hopefully things turn around and we can all be on the same page... It doesnt even feel like winter outside. I have yet to feel truly cold, it seems like early november Hope I'm not saying this beyond Christmas but...Still very early being Dec 8th....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pazzo83 Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 yeah agreed..i wish i had what DT is smoking lol because i see nothing encouraging on that map. i think this stat is related to why we have yet to see any arctic air here "On Sunday the AO hit +5.647 standard deviations above normal. That is the 2nd highest EVER (well since record keeping began in 1950) for the arctic oscillation" Jesus, positive much? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTrials Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 yeah agreed..i wish i had what DT is smoking lol because i see nothing encouraging on that map. i think this stat is related to why we have yet to see any arctic air here "On Sunday the AO hit +5.647 standard deviations above normal. That is the 2nd highest EVER (well since record keeping began in 1950) for the arctic oscillation" Yea. In a winter with no snow and a terrible pattern weenies will try to find a storm in every model run. Hopefully things turn around and we can all be on the same page... It doesnt even feel like winter outside. I have yet to feel truly cold, it seems like early november Lol @ trials and A-town going at it. Something tells me that will be the theme this year If the euro is a classic signal for east coast snow storm at 240, them I'm the easter bunny. And LOL at using DT to validate an argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CooL Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Jesus, positive much? yeah man, i said the same thing. We basically need a complete pattern overhaul so we can start rocking again and get some snowstorms. The thing that worries me is that whenever there have been back to back la nina's, never were both cold east coast winters. As long as its cold enough to snow im fine but these december rainstorms have to go, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CooL Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 If the euro is a classic signal for east coast snow storm at 240, them I'm the easter bunny. And LOL at using DT to validate an argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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