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December moving forward...pattern disco


weathafella

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it's remarkable. when they finally catch on to the super + regime, maybe then we can expect it to go negative. :lol:

The EC teleconnections that I can see might be configured a little differently...maybe using 500mb heights, but I'm not sure. Looking back about 2 weeks ago, it was running about 1.5SD too low. So it too has struggled.

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The EC teleconnections that I can see might be configured a little differently...maybe using 500mb heights, but I'm not sure. Looking back about 2 weeks ago, it was running about 1.5SD too low. So it too has struggled.

Its been a case of which model is the least bad for identifying the problem in the AO.

Last year we frequently saw the bias in the other direction...always forecasting the AO too high. It seems when we get a stubborn and stable setup, the models always want to break it down way too quickly.

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Its been a case of which model is the least bad for identifying the problem in the AO.

Last year we frequently saw the bias in the other direction...always forecasting the AO too high. It seems when we get a stubborn and stable setup, the models always want to break it down way too quickly.

Yeah exactly. It's pretty amazing though and shows you that questioning a downturn in those indices is probably a good idea until you get closer and have more data.

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Its been a case of which model is the least bad for identifying the problem in the AO.

Last year we frequently saw the bias in the other direction...always forecasting the AO too high. It seems when we get a stubborn and stable setup, the models always want to break it down way too quickly.

yeah felt the same way in 09-10 as well.

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The EC teleconnections that I can see might be configured a little differently...maybe using 500mb heights, but I'm not sure. Looking back about 2 weeks ago, it was running about 1.5SD too low. So it too has struggled.

I think part of the trouble for all the models is they tend to like to form strong ridges at times. almost for as long as I can remember, the Euro ahs been a little overzzealous with forecasting blocking over Greenland. That last night's ens mean has a positive nao through the forecast is pretty telling. People shouldn't be surprised about the GFS ensembles underpredicting the ao and nao as it has been doing that pretty much since OCt. What is surprising is how strong the ao has gotten, a 4 SD ao is like wow. Remeinds me of the massive negative one from the past two years.

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I think part of the trouble for all the models is they tend to like to form strong ridges at times. almost for as long as I can remember, the Euro ahs been a little overzzealous with forecasting blocking over Greenland. That last night's ens mean has a positive nao through the forecast is pretty telling. People shouldn't be surprised about the GFS ensembles underpredicting the ao and nao as it has been doing that pretty much since OCt. What is surprising is how strong the ao has gotten, a 4 SD ao is like wow. Remeinds me of the massive negative one from the past two years.

Yes very strong for sure...defintely not common to see when it is 4 SD.

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You have to go back to the winter of 2007-2008 to find the last time the AO got that positive.

Another reason why I think its a decent analogue to use for this Winter.

Now 2007-08 did not have a huge AK Vortex in December which maybe the outcome this year but it did feature a similar Atlantic/ENSO pattern thus far.

Do you have the MJO charts from 2007-08?

Thanks!

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I don't think I'd take this GFS run too seriously unless the Euro backs it up....

BTW ...the ECM never updated on weaher underground last night. I hope it's fixed today.

Not at all, But it just shows from run to run the GFS is having trouble with the cold and the placement of the ridge, The cold air looked like it was further SE into canada moving into the NE, And phases into 1 large storm instead of being strung out along the frontal boundry, Looking at last nights Euro, It has the storm but it was offshore heading NE of the benchmark, Take the middle road between the Euro and GFS and someone would be getting a decent snowstorm..

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