Jump to content
  • Member Statistics

    17,589
    Total Members
    7,904
    Most Online
    LopezElliana
    Newest Member
    LopezElliana
    Joined

December moving forward...pattern disco


weathafella

Recommended Posts

Take what we can get month. It could be worse, that's for sure. Hopefully that cold dump has some legs as it moves east. There should be storms riding along that boundary for sure, obviously we know what the risks our if the trough out west gets too strong.

Yeah it's December. Like you've posted many times we've been spoiled with our Decembers recently.... I've gone through many horrible Decembers only to have things pick up decently after Christmas.

If we start seeing the storm track set up to our NW around Dec 15 and see strong signs of the +EPO coming back then I'll start to worry a bit more.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 1.3k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

From Ryan Maue's site.... another reason why the 18z GFS is likely far too cold.

Call me confused if you want but the 18 Z GFS is showing a mainly positive AO and has been for quite some time now. So if the operational run is showing colder weather on the horizon and the AO is positive..then that must mean that there is another reason that the cold air is shown on an increase to the region..

Lets see you have the GGEM ensembles showing a gradient pattern setting up with a colder over all look from about the 9th on...

You have the GFS ensembles showing a gradient pattern setting up with a colder over all look from about the 9th on..

You have the ECM ensembles showing the same type of look as above.....

And what do all these ensemble means have in common that is making them all colder over all (colder as in compared to november so call it seasonal for the sake of argument)....

There has to be something that is being over looked by mets here and i think if Gibbs ( can't remember his exact name but was a pro met at eastern) I think he would say its the power of the negative EPO!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

amen.

I think you should be in a decent spot there...there's a few solutions we've seen that stunk even that far north, but I'd feel pretty good there. Down here, we'll be worrying about latitude issues perhaps. We'll just have to wait and see how good this cold push is and how the models handle this EPO cold dump...if past performance is any indication, they don't tend to handle it all that well.

So we are kind of in a wait and see mode WRT the cold even though we have a general idea of the pattern. The difference will be in the details.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah it's December. Like you've posted many times we've been spoiled with our Decembers recently.... I've gone through many horrible Decembers only to have things pick up decently after Christmas.

If we start seeing the storm track set up to our NW around Dec 15 and see strong signs of the +EPO coming back then I'll start to worry a bit more.

It's just been so boring lately. Not even a crappy clipper system ending as some flakes, type deal. Just complete boredom.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah it's December. Like you've posted many times we've been spoiled with our Decembers recently.... I've gone through many horrible Decembers only to have things pick up decently after Christmas.

If we start seeing the storm track set up to our NW around Dec 15 and see strong signs of the +EPO coming back then I'll start to worry a bit more.

LOL hmmmmm... whens the last time we saw that?

CoastalWx said "It's just been so boring lately. Not even a crappy clipper system ending as some flakes, type deal. Just complete boredom."

lately? its really been boring since I'd say The tulip trouncer.... We've had 3 major events spread out two months apart, with absolute boredom in between....

June 1

2 month Boringness

Irene

2 month monotony

Halloweenie

1 month of hell, probably about to be 2 months

SREFs come out in 5 minutes... can't wait!

SkiMRG said "

No snow for you this Winter. It's a done deal. You should take some time off. Maybe take up stamp collecting."

Lol... If I'm not getting snow, you're not getting snow seeing I have latitude and longitude on you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think you should be in a decent spot there...there's a few solutions we've seen that stunk even that far north, but I'd feel pretty good there. Down here, we'll be worrying about latitude issues perhaps. We'll just have to wait and see how good this cold push is and how the models handle this EPO cold dump...if past performance is any indication, they don't tend to handle it all that well.

So we are kind of in a wait and see mode WRT the cold even though we have a general idea of the pattern. The difference will be in the details.

we'll see. the euro 12z run really threw me for a loop, but i just have to remind myself its one run of the op. but its trends would not be surprsing to me. we need the NAO to do something, even if its not tank.....just a little would go a long way with that huge SE ridge. hopefully you are rigfht about the EPO being underdone.

ive definitely been disappointed so far by the 2 modeled cold pushes into S quebec which havent really materialized to date. thats alarming, though u r right, an EPO may go a long way in helping that situation.

but we've had warm crap winters here too......its not like we are immune. usually right about the same time you guys get them too lol.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

LOL hmmmmm... whens the last time we saw that?

CoastalWx said "It's just been so boring lately. Not even a crappy clipper system ending as some flakes, type deal. Just complete boredom."

lately? its really been boring since I'd say The tulip trouncer.... We've had 3 major events spread out two months apart, with absolute boredom in between....

June 1

2 month Boringness

Irene

2 month monotony

Halloweenie

1 month of hell, probably about to be 2 months

SREFs come out in 5 minutes... can't wait!

No snow for you this Winter. It's a done deal. You should take some time off. Maybe take up stamp collecting.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

LOL hmmmmm... whens the last time we saw that?

CoastalWx said "It's just been so boring lately. Not even a crappy clipper system ending as some flakes, type deal. Just complete boredom."

lately? its really been boring since I'd say The tulip trouncer.... We've had 3 major events spread out two months apart, with absolute boredom in between....

June 1

2 month Boringness

Irene

2 month monotony

Halloweenie

1 month of hell, probably about to be 2 months

SREFs come out in 5 minutes... can't wait!

A hurricane and KU event in October are extremely rare here.......i look at it like the non-winter months were fairly exciting around the northeast. We normally dont see anything exciting at all

Link to comment
Share on other sites

thanks for the link

if i'm reading this correctly, then the NAO in december 2007 was 0.34

thats a big difference from where it is now, and goes along with my suspicions....

Yes, of course those are the CPC values though. There is supposedly another NAO index calculation that is more weighted than that, I personally do not know where or if it is available online. But I recently read an AMS paper regarding the 1994-95 and 1995-96 winters and they mention the NAO index averaged -3.40 and +3.30 or so in those winters which is nothing close to the CPC numbers so there must be another calculation done elsewhere. As a matter of fact, according to their calculations, at least as of 2001 those were the highest and lowest respective winter NAO values since 1900, obviously last winter probably beat the 1995-96 one though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Call me confused if you want but the 18 Z GFS is showing a mainly positive AO and has been for quite some time now. So if the operational run is showing colder weather on the horizon and the AO is positive..then that must mean that there is another reason that the cold air is shown on an increase to the region..

Lets see you have the GGEM ensembles showing a gradient pattern setting up with a colder over all look from about the 9th on...

You have the GFS ensembles showing a gradient pattern setting up with a colder over all look from about the 9th on..

You have the ECM ensembles showing the same type of look as above.....

And what do all these ensemble means have in common that is making them all colder over all (colder as in compared to november so call it seasonal for the sake of argument)....

There has to be something that is being over looked by mets here and i think if Gibbs ( can't remember his exact name but was a pro met at eastern) I think he would say its the power of the negative EPO!

A lot of people are talking about the NAO and AO but not the EPO. The EPO is just as important as the NAO and AO.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A lot of people are talking about the NAO and AO but not the EPO. The EPO is just as important as the NAO and AO.

1993-94 and 2002-03 showed that, the NAO was very positive in 1993-94 and spent a good portion of 2002-03 after December in the positive phase, but both years were aided by a -AO, the AO was generally slightly negative in 1993-94 and raging negative in 2002-03.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1993-94 and 2002-03 showed that, the NAO was very positive in 1993-94 and spent a good portion of 2002-03 after December in the positive phase, but both years were aided by a -AO, the AO was generally slightly negative in 1993-94 and raging negative in 2002-03.

Looks to me like January of 1994 was a + AO

Yet do your remember how the month of January turned out?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well I can't see half of the posts, lol. Gotta wait until the switch for turning off the subscription filer is back...eek is working on it now.

GFS is actually good for NNE next week, lol. Not sure I buy it, but obviously that would be a better solution.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well I can't see half of the posts, lol. Gotta wait until the switch for turning off the subscription filer is back...eek is working on it now.

GFS is actually good for NNE next week, lol. Not sure I buy it, but obviously that would be a better solution.

You thinking ice storm like me? Looks classic verbatim GFS

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well I can't see half of the posts, lol. Gotta wait until the switch for turning off the subscription filer is back...eek is working on it now.

GFS is actually good for NNE next week, lol. Not sure I buy it, but obviously that would be a better solution.

I had the skin setting at the bottom of the page and switched to another that i don't like but now its gone for me to change to something else...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You thinking ice storm like me? Looks classic verbatim GFS

GFS def would be a little bit of concern for some ice, particularly in a narrow band just south of the snow...but the airmass isn't overly cold. You'd like to see the high a little stronger. GFS is a bad model to use anyway for shallow cold air drainage.

You never know though...sometimes these things sneak up on you as they get closer...like 12/11-12/08 did..the sfc didn't look that impressively cold until about 3 days out.

This is even assuming we got a setup like that...still could be a lake cutter.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...