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Larry Cosgrove has had enough of Winter is over calls


Ji

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Time for a reality check. I have had my fill of the premature "winter is over" calls. If you check the computer models (ALL of them), you notice three prominent ridge signatures through December 15. -EPO, -NAO and Cuban subtropical high. Teleconnections on said ridges produce what is essentially a full-latitude trough with Arctic air drainage into the Great Plains, Midwest and Northeast. With an active storm track from NM and TX into either S QC or (in the longer term) VA or NC.Sounds wintry to me...

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Yes we're going to have some cold days even in Dec when the PNA ridge gets far enough east to pull down cold air. However, I sure don't see any signs of the negative ao or NAO and when the ridge shifts west we'll warm up again. cpc ensembles which if anything have been too bullish in forecasting the nao to go negative or to fall also keep both the ao and nao positive. . I'll be writing something for CWG on the pattern over the next couple of days so I won't post much more about it until my piece is done.

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Reality check:

Only the op GFS and several ensemble models go trough Dec 15 or close enough. By Dec. 10-15th I only see neutral or +EPO, +NAO/AO and some indications of the subtropical Cuban/MX/NYC ridge, AKA SE ridge.

sYa3B.gif

KQsMl.gif

Op GFS and Euro Ensembles aren't that different with those three ridges.

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Reality check:

Only the op GFS and several ensemble models go trough Dec 15 or close enough. By Dec. 10-15th I only see neutral or +EPO, +NAO/AO and some indications of the subtropical Cuban/MX/NYC ridge, AKA SE ridge.

sYa3B.gif

KQsMl.gif

Op GFS and Euro Ensembles aren't that different with those three ridges.

Good post. With the polar vortex raging and with the mjo not yet near any favorable position to get any real movement to the pattern and with the easterlies in the tropics increasing. I don't see what he is looking at.

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Good post. With the polar vortex raging and with the mjo not yet near any favorable position to get any real movement to the pattern and with the easterlies in the tropics increasing. I don't see what he is looking at.

Here Wes.

Thereis a prominent -NAO

signal on these maps. Just not into Greenland, a ridge over the northwestern

Atlantic Ocean.

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If he was looking at the operational Eruo, he may have an argument though I'd like to see the ridging a little more the the north and west but at least there is some ridging into srn Greenland and Iceland.

I'm skeptical on whatever the models show past 4 or 5 days. Especially with the lack of stratospheric and MJO support. The cold shot around the Dec.6-7 is now leaving after 1 or 2 days on the 12z GFS and Euro today. Yes, there's another huge artic outbreak behind it. But it keeps getting pushed back.

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Thanks but looking at the operational Euro, I can see what larry was looking at. Right now it's an outlier but sometimes they are right an I am wr---nohg, wrong.

I just wish you were wrong when you say it is going to rain. For some reason it always rains and we never get snow.

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Here is the past 4 years snow cover that is on this date. (Notice: sample size is really small, so this is meant to be taken with a grain of salt)

2007 -> 2011

nsm_depth_2007112905_National.jpg

nsm_depth_2008112905_National.jpg

nsm_depth_2009112905_National.jpg

nsm_depth_2010112905_National.jpg

nsm_depth_2011112905_National.jpg

Percent of area covered my snow: 2003-2011

2003-17.3

2004-23.3

2005-34.5

2006-23.6

2007-18.7

2008-17.2

2009-11.0

2010-35.0

2011-07.8

Conclusion: On this date for years 2003-2011, 2011 has the lowest snow cover.

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Percent of area covered my snow: 2003-2011

2003-17.3

2004-23.3

2005-34.5

2006-23.6

2007-18.7

2008-17.2

2009-11.0

2010-35.0

2011-07.8

Conclusion: On this date for years 2003-2011, 2011 has the lowest snow cover.

Not much less than 2009. By this logic, the Mid-Atlantic should see another sweet winter.

Or not.

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I meant that post to be inferred as a trend. Sample size is wayy too small to definitively compare.

No worries. I actually liked looking at the info and maps. Just couldn't help but make a completely nonsensical correlation between snowcover on November 26 in 2009 and what we've got this year.

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