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December 2011 General Discussion/Obs


Chicago Storm

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1.5 inches of rain starting tomorrow night into Wednesday, highs are forecasted in the low 50s Wednesday and Thursday. Season snow totals so far a whopping 0.02 inches of snow...absolutely dismal.

Maybe this year will be a short, but hard hitting winter!

0.02"? Man you guys are exact in Chambana. tongue.png

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Larry Cosgrove throwing a bone. Pattern change ahead.

The weekend storm is very important for many reasons. If this feature turns into a strong cyclone as I think it might, colder air will be pulled southward through the Great Plains. On the idea that a cAk vortex forms as the low enters S ON and QC, then a veritable pattern change could occur where colder values have a grip on the U.S. to the right of the Continental Divide. With a huge stratospheric warming event forecast across Arctic Canada and the ever-vigorous southern branch jet stream supplying moisture and energy, Texas and the Gulf Coast could get stuck in a frequently wet and cold alignment during the last week of December.

Keep your eyes on the weekend. Because a minor storm could very well translate to a milder winter outlook for many. Then again, if the low pressure area is as intense as I think it may be, a while new world of weather awaits us, beginning with the holidays!

http://www.examiner....tober-24-2011-1

This sounds more like wishful thinking than reality.

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I just don't see any potential with any of these split flow day 8-10 storms the guidance continually tries to blow up. This has more or less been going on for two months now, and there seems to be little forecast change in the AO any time soon. Every storm threat with a cutoff southern stream anomaly has ended up being significantly suppressed with generally quite a bit of northern stream interference.

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Agreed. Reality is it's going to be a long road to back to "consistent" winter. Hopefully there's a fluke in the meantime.

Personally I don't know much about LC, but it doesn't seem like a very accurate representation, not to mention we have seen multiple shallow "cold air" intrusions into the plains this fall/winter, but they have not been associated with any real arctic intrusions associated with the PV.

I agree, a fluke in the pattern would be nice. I do vividly remember GHD and how that one snuck in after a relative lull in the pattern. Weird things can happen...right now I am back into full pessimistic mode until there is reason to believe a legit pattern change is occurring, especially with the way the guidance has handled the strength of the +AO the last month.

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Personally I don't know much about LC, but it doesn't seem like a very accurate representation, not to mention we have seen multiple shallow "cold air" intrusions into the plains this fall/winter, but they have not been associated with any real arctic intrusions associated with the PV.

I agree, a fluke in the pattern would be nice. I do vividly remember GHD and how that one snuck in after a relative lull in the pattern. Weird things can happen...right now I am back into full pessimistic mode until there is reason to believe a legit pattern change is occurring.

I can't verify LC's accuracy to an exact degree, but I think he's had his fair share of hit and misses in the past. Judging from what I see and read, I concur with you that he's probably jumping the gun. But he's been a board staple (or talking point) going back many years...

Your pessimism is warranted right now...no reason to be optimistic in light of the facts. Hopefully there's some changes as head into January. Until then, hope for a fluke. :)

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LC like stated before has I guess what some would call a good track record.

Yea the +AO on steroids isnt helping the prospects of sustained arctic air or a real winter. Still think this pattern will snap fast. I think we all have seen it before. It's just funny how some mets see a return to winter while others like Gaylord wfo are super pessimistic. Still way to early to call assumptions on future months...

Brings up another question..yea we know the teleconections are poop and tell the story but what did most of us miss with our winter outlooks. A important piece to the puzzle I guess was overlooked. Anyone with a good skill on this wish to further elaborate or simply put it to rest.

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LC like stated before has I guess what some would call a good track record.

Yea the +AO on steroids isnt helping the prospects of sustained arctic air or a real winter. Still think this pattern will snap fast. I think we all have seen it before. It's just funny how some mets see a return to winter while others like Gaylord wfo are super pessimistic. Still way to early to call assumptions on future months...

Brings up another question..yea we know the teleconections are poop and tell the story but what did most of us miss with our winter outlooks. A important piece to the puzzle I guess was overlooked. Anyone with a good skill on this wish to further elaborate or simply put it to rest.

I could see APX being pessimistic just because the bar is relatively high for their winter standards compared to most other areas. One decent snow storm followed by cold air can equal a return to winter for most locales, but for Northern Michigan, they are looking for a pattern that will result in repeated dumpings of snow 2-3x per week both synoptic and LES.

I also wonder how the winter outlooks, particularly the December outlooks made in October, were based on.

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What a strung out piece of garbage the day 6+ system looks like. Gets the job done via the 12z GFS, but man it looks it a little questionable. Western Canada is void any real cold air and that honking 1024-ish high that comes down is laughable. Granted there's enough confluence in central and eastern Canada to block this thing and provide "cold enough" air...but I guess it's the best we got right now.

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What a strung out piece of garbage the day 6+ system looks like. Gets the job done via the 12z GFS, but man it looks it a little questionable. Western Canada is void any real cold air and that honking 1024-ish high that comes down is laughable. Granted there's enough confluence in central and eastern Canada to block this thing and provide "cold enough" air...but I guess it's the best we got right now.

Yeah it looks like that if we can get something out of this it will be another thin band of snow on the far northwest edge. Definitely not a widespread event. Alek's right, it won't be until we see a fundamental pattern change beyond 10 days that we see a chance at a widespread snow.

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Alek's right, it won't be until we see a fundamental pattern change beyond 10 days that we see a chance at a widespread snow.

Been saying that myself for awhile, as others have too. Reality is we probably have to wait until January for the change to take place...if it does change, which I think it will. This is a good test for all of our patience. :lol:

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Been saying that myself for awhile, as others have too. Reality is we probably have to wait until January for the change to take place...if it does change, which I think it will. This is a good test for all of our patience. laugh.png

yep, no big secret. Sucks but i'm not totally melting down...you can't be above average every year.

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yep, no big secret. Sucks but i'm not totally melting down...you can't be above average every year.

I plan on having zero meltdowns this winter. I mean if this one goes complete disaster, well the past 4 winters have been good...real good for some/a lot. There's a long history of crappy winters in between good runs...can't win 'em every year. But let's hope for the best in the future.

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