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December 16th event


RaleighWx

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SREF Mean has snow for a 2-3 hours for CLT then a switch over to ZR for another 3 hours then a switch over to rain. Based on it RDU would be the winner for snow but that's only for around 6 hours.

You just beat me to it burger. Looking at the SREF members on BUFKIT many of its members are much improved from what they were showing 24 hours ago. Still not a major event but something that would definitely effect travel early Thursday morning.

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12z nam

piedmont triad/.....starts as sn around 15z thurs and then mixes with and changes to a mod zr event........this is a warning event.......and remember,waa pcp comes in faster than models predict...........1-2" sn over the nw piedmont the a zr event.....dp's are in the low to mid 20's at the start of the event................

xwx

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12z NAM essentially dry for anybody south of I-40 in NC....

I agree. Very paltry. South of I-40 and east of the mountains looks like trace amounts to possibly .10" Really nothing, and most of that actually arrives when temps are above 32, so this run is token sleet pellets at best for the southern piedmont. Its back to focusing the moisture along a northeast axis from Tenn into eastern Ky and western Va. through 60 hours. I'd be more than happy to let this 20 minutes worth of light sleet pass me by for the opportunity to get a big snow dump Saturday night though.

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You just beat me to it burger. Looking at the SREF members on BUFKIT many of its members are much improved from what they were showing 24 hours ago. Still not a major event but something that would definitely effect travel early Thursday morning.

If something happens that early 485 will be gridlock as well as 77...if this over performs there are going to be a lot of angry people.

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The amount of warm advection as portrayed by the 12Z NAM is tremendous. 850 and 800mb winds howl at 55-60kts. The warm nose comes in quickly, but for Asheville, looks like snow overnight before freezing rain towards dawn Thursday and then all rain thereafter.

EDIT: Given the stout WAA, it is suspicious why there isn't more precip in NC, especially from AVL to RDU. Seems there is plenty of moisture to work with...

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If something happens that early 485 will be gridlock as well as 77...if this over performs there are going to be a lot of angry people.

after the various runs yesterday going back and forth, this morning is not looking too good for over performance at this point. i certainly hope so, but am afraid most of the precip that falls when its cold enough will just be virga

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The amount of warm advection as portrayed by the 12Z NAM is tremendous. 850 and 800mb winds howl at 55-60kts. The warm nose comes in quickly, but for Asheville, looks like snow overnight before freezing rain towards dawn Thursday and then all rain thereafter.

should be a quick burst of sn,Then to a cold rain in asheville at 2300ft level.........Best place for zr is above 950mb.......2000ft or lower east of the mnts........they are borderline

xwx

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KVEGAS is arguably near the border, right along I-40, so I wouldn't bemoan its chances yet.

I've lived here 25 years, I know where its at tongue.gif. I'm about 25 miles from the VA border as the crow flies and 3 miles N of I-40. I think my chances are pretty good of seeing some snow at the onset, but I'd rather see this storm throw the moisture further south for all of us. I mean, I'll take snow anytime I can get it, I just dont like the trend the models are showing us on this event with less moisture and warmer temps.

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Heck we here in the east love it when they talk about snow north of I-40 lol........

From MHX overnight disco

AN AREA OF LOW PRESSURE WILL APPROACH

THE REGION LATE WEDNESDAY FROM THE NORTHWEST. PRECIPITATION LATE

WEDNESDAY NIGHT INTO THURSDAY MORNING WILL INITIALLY START OUT AS

SNOW SHOWERS AND TRANSITION TO RAIN BY MIDDAY. FORECAST SOUNDINGS

INDICATE AMPLE MOISTURE IN THE SNOW GROWTH REGION. MODELS DIFFER

ON SNOWFALL AMOUNTS WITH THE NAM SUGGESTING 2-3 INCHES AND THE GFS

SUGGESTING 1-2 INCHES. GIVEN MODEL UNCERTAINTY ON SURFACE LOW TRACK

AND TIMING...KEPT POPS IN THE CHANCE CATEGORY FOR NOW. PLEASE

CONTINUE TO MONITOR FUTURE FORECASTS FOR MORE DETAILS ON THE

PROGRESS OF THIS SYSTEM.

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Heck we here in the east love it when they talk about snow north of I-40 lol........

From MHX overnight disco

AN AREA OF LOW PRESSURE WILL APPROACH

THE REGION LATE WEDNESDAY FROM THE NORTHWEST. PRECIPITATION LATE

WEDNESDAY NIGHT INTO THURSDAY MORNING WILL INITIALLY START OUT AS

SNOW SHOWERS AND TRANSITION TO RAIN BY MIDDAY. FORECAST SOUNDINGS

INDICATE AMPLE MOISTURE IN THE SNOW GROWTH REGION. MODELS DIFFER

ON SNOWFALL AMOUNTS WITH THE NAM SUGGESTING 2-3 INCHES AND THE GFS

SUGGESTING 1-2 INCHES. GIVEN MODEL UNCERTAINTY ON SURFACE LOW TRACK

AND TIMING...KEPT POPS IN THE CHANCE CATEGORY FOR NOW. PLEASE

CONTINUE TO MONITOR FUTURE FORECASTS FOR MORE DETAILS ON THE

PROGRESS OF THIS SYSTEM.

Allow me to explain the very complex meteorology of this:

post-139-0-99478700-1292340334.jpg

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Yep this run is a lot dryer.

This run gave me sprinkles :(

101216/0000Z 48 22003KT 32.7F 0:1| 0.0|| 0.0 0.000|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 0| 0| 0

----------------------------------------------+----++-------------++--------------++-------------++-----------+---+---

101216/0100Z 49 21004KT 32.5F 0:1| 0.0|| 0.0 0.000|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 0| 0| 0

101216/0200Z 50 21004KT 32.0F 0:1| 0.0|| 0.0 0.000|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 0| 0| 0

101216/0300Z 51 21004KT 32.4F 0:1| 0.0|| 0.0 0.000|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 0| 0| 0

101216/0400Z 52 20004KT 32.4F 0:1| 0.0|| 0.0 0.000|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 0| 0| 0

101216/0500Z 53 20004KT 32.2F 0:1| 0.0|| 0.0 0.000|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 0| 0| 0

101216/0600Z 54 20004KT 32.2F 0:1| 0.0|| 0.0 0.000|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 0| 0| 0

----------------------------------------------+----++-------------++--------------++-------------++-----------+---+---

101216/0700Z 55 22003KT 32.4F 0:1| 0.0|| 0.0 0.000|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 0| 0| 0

101216/0800Z 56 19003KT 32.4F 0:1| 0.0|| 0.0 0.000|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 0| 0| 0

101216/0900Z 57 18003KT 32.4F 0:1| 0.0|| 0.0 0.000|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 0| 0| 0

101216/1000Z 58 16004KT 32.4F 0:1| 0.0|| 0.0 0.000|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 0| 0| 0

101216/1100Z 59 15004KT 32.4F 0:1| 0.0|| 0.0 0.000|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 0| 0| 0

101216/1200Z 60 16005KT 32.5F 0:1| 0.0|| 0.0 0.000|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 0| 0| 0

----------------------------------------------+----++-------------++--------------++-------------++-----------+---+---

101216/1300Z 61 16006KT 33.1F 0:1| 0.0|| 0.0 0.000|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 0| 0| 0

101216/1400Z 62 17006KT 33.8F 0:1| 0.0|| 0.0 0.000|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 0| 0| 0

101216/1500Z 63 19007KT 35.4F 0:1| 0.0|| 0.0 0.000|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 0| 0| 0

101216/1600Z 64 21006KT 35.8F RAIN 0:1| 0.0|| 0.0 0.008|| 0.01 0.00|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 0| 0|100

101216/1700Z 65 22006KT 37.0F 0:1| 0.0|| 0.0 0.000|| 0.01 0.00|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 0| 0| 0

101216/1800Z 66 24004KT 37.0F RAIN 0:1| 0.0|| 0.0 0.004|| 0.01 0.00|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 0| 0|100

----------------------------------------------+----++-------------++--------------++-------------++-----------+---+---

101216/1900Z 67 31003KT 36.3F DZ 0:1| 0.0|| 0.0 0.008|| 0.02 0.00|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 0| 0|100

101216/2000Z 68 01004KT 35.6F 0:1| 0.0|| 0.0 0.000|| 0.02 0.00|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 0| 0| 0

101216/2100Z 69 04004KT 34.9F DZ 0:1| 0.0|| 0.0 0.004|| 0.02 0.00|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 0| 0|100

101216/2200Z 70 05004KT 34.0F DZ 0:1| 0.0|| 0.0 0.004|| 0.03 0.00|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 0| 0|100

101216/2300Z 71 07003KT 33.8F DZ 0:1| 0.0|| 0.0 0.004|| 0.03 0.00|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 0| 0|100

101217/0000Z 72 08003KT 33.8F DZ 0:1| 0.0|| 0.0 0.004|| 0.04 0.00|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 0| 0|100

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date/hour FHr Wind SfcT Ptype SRat|Snow||TotSN QPF ||TotQPF Sleet||TotPL FZRA||TotZR S%| I%| L%

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

101217/0100Z 73 VRB02KT 33.8F DZ 0:1| 0.0|| 0.0 0.008|| 0.04 0.00|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 0| 0|100

101217/0200Z 74 VRB02KT 33.6F DZ 0:1| 0.0|| 0.0 0.012|| 0.06 0.00|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 0| 0|100

101217/0300Z 75 VRB02KT 33.8F DZ 0:1| 0.0|| 0.0 0.012|| 0.07 0.00|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 0| 0|100

101217/0400Z 76 04003KT 33.8F DZ 0:1| 0.0|| 0.0 0.008|| 0.07 0.00|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 0| 0|100

101217/0500Z 77 05003KT 33.8F DZ 0:1| 0.0|| 0.0 0.004|| 0.08 0.00|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 0| 0|100

101217/0600Z 78 06004KT 34.0F 0:1| 0.0|| 0.0 0.000|| 0.08 0.00|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 0| 0| 0

----------------------------------------------+----++-------------++--------------++-------------++-----------+---+---

101217/0700Z 79 06004KT 34.2F 0:1| 0.0|| 0.0 0.000|| 0.08 0.00|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 0| 0| 0

101217/0800Z 80 06003KT 34.2F DZ 0:1| 0.0|| 0.0 0.008|| 0.09 0.00|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 0| 0|100

101217/0900Z 81 07003KT 34.2F DZ 0:1| 0.0|| 0.0 0.012|| 0.10 0.00|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 0| 0|100

101217/1000Z 82 07003KT 33.4F DZ 0:1| 0.0|| 0.0 0.020|| 0.12 0.00|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 0| 0|100

101217/1100Z 83 06003KT 33.8F DZ 0:1| 0.0|| 0.0 0.016|| 0.13 0.00|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 0| 0|100

101217/1200Z 84 06004KT 33.4F DZ 0:1| 0.0|| 0.0 0.004|| 0.14 0.00|| 0.00 0.00|| 0.00 0| 0|100

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Allow me to explain the very complex meteorology of this:

LOL yeah here its the 264 corridor that is oftan the line and that runs right through Gville :arrowhead: ......

Looks like we all see some frozen Thur but its gonna be one of these.....Nice heavy snow to start we all start freaking out and say stupid stuff like maybe the models were wrong and its gonna be all snow and the QPF is way underdone......than along comes reality which proceeds to laugh at us then slaps us in the face and it changes to all rain and 34 degrees.

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LOL yeah here its the 264 corridor that is oftan the line and that runs right through Gville :arrowhead: ......

Looks like we all see some frozen Thur but its gonna be one of these.....Nice heavy snow to start we all start freaking out and say stupid stuff like maybe the models were wrong and its gonna be all snow and the QPF is way underdone......than along comes reality which proceeds to laugh at us then slaps us in the face and it changes to all rain and 34 degrees.

I will undoubtedly change to rain, especially south with a WAA / Overrunning event like this. I was just hoping to pick up a light front end accumulation. I actually would not mind a little ZR being it has been years since we have had that believe it or not.

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GFS is a total non-event in most of NC, like the NAM. The best place in NC will be northwest and north central next to the border and maybe the central mountains, the futher south and east you go, the less precip. Through 60 hours theres virtually nothing but trace amounts along and south of 40. and not much more than .10" along the NC VA border but does give ne NC over .25. The real winners are in northeast Tn and western Va, Wva and Ky. Strong warm advection so lot more moisture and dynamics on the other side of the Apps, which was always a possibility. Looks like overruning is about to begin by 72 hours, its linking this event with the next one quick on its heels.

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Thought this was interesting

Area forecast discussion

National Weather Service Columbia SC

1003 am EST Tuesday Dec 14 2010

Still lots of uncertainty with this potential wintry mix scenario.

One reason for the somewhat low confidence is that the developing

synoptic situation does not fit the normal conceptual model for

wintry precipitation for central SC and the Georgia csra. NAM/GFS/ECMWF

still have some differences with the timing of precipitation and

associated track of the associated track of the surface low. Due to the

amount of dry Arctic air in place ahead of this system it is

likely that dewpoints will be in the teens to lower 20s at the

onset of precipitation and there could be some diabatic cooling

effects from evaporation that may lead to possible snow/ice

pellets at the onset of precipitation. Latest NAM BUFKIT sounding

for clt suggests some freezing rain may be included in the mix

early Thursday morning as well. Given current uncertainty...will

keep mention of a possible light mix of snow and sleet mainly

across the northern counties for the early morning hours before

14z Thursday.

I just want a late start to school and I am happy. :popcorn:

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So this thought is running around in my head and I have read back a ways and still not seeing anyone address it. So here goes.

With dewpoints and wetbulbs being what they are at the onset of this precip (assuming we get any precip worth talking about) Because this is not the typical CAD situation, and given the cold air at the surface today and tonight. If / when the precip starts falling is there a chance that with EVAP cooling we never get very much above freezing or will the warm advection from the south be that great?

Anyone is welcome to fire away.

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So this thought is running around in my head and I have read back a ways and still not seeing anyone address it. So here goes.

With dewpoints and wetbulbs being what they are at the onset of this precip (assuming we get any precip worth talking about) Because this is not the typical CAD situation, and given the cold air at the surface today and tonight. If / when the precip starts falling is there a chance that with EVAP cooling we never get very much above freezing or will the warm advection from the south be that great?

Anyone is welcome to fire away.

Completely non-scientific, non-meteorological opinion: We live in the SE, so warm air advection will most likely win out. I hope I'm wrong. Really wrong.

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