The Shift Work Environment in Meteorology needs to change!

[FreshAJ]

Hi, I'm AJ and I'm a new member here at Americanwx blog. I've been a meteorologist on TV, within the aviation industry, and on a power and natural gas energy trading floor. I've started a blog called FreshAJ (www.freshaj.com) that helps students, graduates, and career professionals in meteorology get juicy insights into the weather industry. I discuss most operational forecasting sectors, including TV, Aviation, Energy, Private weather consulting, government, and weather derivatives.

Below is the link to my latest post about "Why the Shift Work Environment in Meteorology needs to Change". Please have a look and I'd love to receive your feedback and comments!

http://www.freshaj.c...needs-to-change

Best,

AJ

[Ed Lizard]

It is still shift work if someone is up at 3 am, even if they're wearing PJs and sitting at home.

And someone has to be ther elive to issue the warnings...

[usedtobe]

It is still shift work if someone is up at 3 am, even if they're wearing PJs and sitting at home.

And someone has to be ther elive to issue the warnings...

Yep and actually, it helps to have another body around that is awake with you. The weather doesn't stop.

[Ginx snewx]

It is fantastic for the Aviation company to be so progressive in the way they view their most important asset. With technology evolving so quickly, the need for folks to sit behind desks doing jobs they can do as well from home is greatly reduced. Just great! The benefits to employee and employer as well as societal impacts are many.

[isohume]

So planes don't fly overnight and no metwatching, TAFs or TAF ammends are needed? Can't see that ever happening, which is why the NWS will always be staffed 24-7...notwithstanding the security issues of course.

[Ginx snewx]

So planes don't fly overnight and no metwatching, TAFs or TAF ammends are needed? Can't see that ever happening, which is why the NWS will always be staffed 24-7...notwithstanding the security issues of course.

I think the Article states the NWS has to be staffed.

Now I do understand that not ALL operational meteorologists can realistically work from home…(ie NWS) would be difficult due to the very strict clearances they have… but for private consulting meteorologists, private aviation meteorologists, wind meteorologists, solar energy meteorologists…I think they can do better.

[isohume]

I think the Article states the NWS has to be staffed.

Now I do understand that not ALL operational meteorologists can realistically work from home…(ie NWS) would be difficult due to the very strict clearances they have… but for private consulting meteorologists, private aviation meteorologists, wind meteorologists, solar energy meteorologists…I think they can do better.

Ahhh...well he included the government sector above. Yeah I can agree with private industry mets telecommuting. We actully telecomutted on the weekends when I worked air quality and that was nice. I couldn't see watches/warnings and TAFs, etc being issued outside of AWIPS...wish we could tho. But even if we could...it wouldn't do away with mid shifts.

[Jim Marusak]

shift-work is unfortunately a necessary evil within meteorology. and to be honest, at times it does suck if you draw the wrong shift. but something can be made of the shifts, depending if they're steadier or not.

my last job in toronto, i worked 4 on dayshift (11hr shifts), 4 off, then 4 nightshift, then 4 off, then the cycle repeated itself. and to be honest, my sleep schedule was a mess, even though my body somewhat adapted. but my social life was abysmal because it was hard planning anything steady around it.

my current job here in st paul, i am a bit more fortunate. 5 - 9 hour shifts. the days aren't the best (wednesday through sunday normally, usually 1p-10p, but can waver by a couple of hours depending on what weekend shift i have). but what makes it a bit better is that for the most part, unless someone's on vacation and stuff, is that it's steadier and at least i normally have mondays and tuesdays off, so at least i can plan something (just can't be too far out of town 3 of those weeks a month as i was off, but on call). but at least i can have a steady poker night at the local bar, be able to plan days off better, etc. the shiftwork i find the worst is when you're constantly changing times of work (from night-shift to days then evenings, then whatever). but as long as the times are fairly consistent, you can have some type of social life (one i need more of).

[FreshAJ]

Hi Ed, thanks for the comment. Yea exactly. In my article post, I mention the aviation company is working in PJ's and is still doing shift work. But my point was the employees are happier, there is less turnover in the company.. the company saves money...and the product output was exactly the same. Of course it can't work for every situation...but I think it's a discussion that we need to start having in meteorology.

Thanks!

AJ

It is still shift work if someone is up at 3 am, even if they're wearing PJs and sitting at home.

And someone has to be ther elive to issue the warnings...

[FreshAJ]

Hi Ginx, thanks! Yep couldn't agree with you more. I think the aviation company should be a model for many private meteorology operational forecasting shops....technology is excellent these days...they should utilize it!

Thanks again,

AJ

It is fantastic for the Aviation company to be so progressive in the way they view their most important asset. With technology evolving so quickly, the need for folks to sit behind desks doing jobs they can do as well from home is greatly reduced. Just great! The benefits to employee and employer as well as societal impacts are many.

[QVectorman]

Shift work has been documented to be detrimental to your health. And it is just horrible any way you spin it. I have never understood why meteorological companies/agencies continue to do rotating shifts. Why don't they just issue a permanent shift to employees? The automotive companies have done this for an eternity and it's a lot easier. At least then your body becomes accustom to a set sleep schedule for months/years.

[usedtobe]

Shift work has been documented to be detrimental to your health. And it is just horrible any way you spin it. I have never understood why meteorological companies/agencies continue to do rotating shifts. Why don't they just issue a permanent shift to employees? The automotive companies have done this for an eternity and it's a lot easier. At least then your body becomes accustom to a set sleep schedule for months/years.

Becaue no matter how you slice it, the rest of the world runs during the day so the night shift people would be trying to turn around during the weekends anyway. Where I worked in the NWS there was one person who liked mis enough to work them permanently. No one else would have agreed so if you ordered people to work mids permanently, about a third of the staff would have been angry. In the NWS, you pretty much needs shifts filled 24 hours a day for warnings, etc. None of us liked working mids but we also got differential and of course could have gone into management to get out of them.

[QVectorman]

Becaue no matter how you slice it, the rest of the world runs during the day so the night shift people would be trying to turn around during the weekends anyway. Where I worked in the NWS there was one person who liked mis enough to work them permanently. No one else would have agreed so if you ordered people to work mids permanently, about a third of the staff would have been angry. In the NWS, you pretty much needs shifts filled 24 hours a day for warnings, etc. None of us liked working mids but we also got differential and of course could have gone into management to get out of them.

Yes, I agree 24 hours a day for weather makes sense and I wouldn't argue against it. I'm just saying the auto industry has done permanent shifts forever. I worked in the factories after high school and was on the midnight shift and everyone gets use to it. But your shift starts at 11 pm so by the time you get tired...4 or 5 am it's almost time to go home. My uncles, father and some neighbors worked midnights and no one really complained about it. You get put on it, you get use to it...end of story. Do your time and earn seniority and then you get your pick of shifts. Which some of them continued on midnights by choice. You actually have more time to do banking, haircuts, shopping etc. on the shift because everyone else is at work when you are off. The key is consistency, switching shifts every couple weeks seems like bananas! How can your body build any sleep normalcy. I mean you might as well consider it jet lag, you are switching your sleeping schedule by 5-8 hours every couple weeks, they say it takes your body 1 day to adjust to every 1 hour of pattern change, so 5-8 hours equates to 5-8 days to adjust, so by the time your body adjust you go and change it 7 days later. I also don't understand why they don't make the shift times more accommodating. Personally, a 10 pm to 6 am, 6 am to 2 pm, and 2pm to 10 pm seems like good shifts, especially for young ppl.

[isohume]

Shift work has been documented to be detrimental to your health. And it is just horrible any way you spin it. I have never understood why meteorological companies/agencies continue to do rotating shifts. Why don't they just issue a permanent shift to employees? The automotive companies have done this for an eternity and it's a lot easier. At least then your body becomes accustom to a set sleep schedule for months/years.

The NWS has only ~10 forecasters per office...so rotating shift work is required to cover all the shifts. There are about 3-4 additional mets at each office in management...but they don't work shifts. In order for offices to have permanent assigned shifts, each office would have to hire I believe it's 4 new forecasters. With Congress freezing our pay these last two years and more to come with perhaps the elimination of in-grade wage increases and locality pay, etc...I could never see the addition of 500 new forecasters.

[FreshAJ]

Why can't the met managers at the NWS help to alleviate the shift burden by taking some shifts? I definitely agree that NWS is not going to hire 4 new forecasters at each office...unfortunately the budget and debt is out of wack...but that's a whole other post!

The NWS has only ~10 forecasters per office...so rotating shift work is required to cover all the shifts. There are about 3-4 additional mets at each office in management...but they don't work shifts. In order for offices to have permanent assigned shifts, each office would have to hire I believe it's 4 new forecasters. With Congress freezing our pay these last two years and more to come with perhaps the elimination of in-grade wage increases and locality pay, etc...I could never see the addition of 500 new forecasters.

[OSUmetstud]

The NWS has only ~10 forecasters per office...so rotating shift work is required to cover all the shifts. There are about 3-4 additional mets at each office in management...but they don't work shifts. In order for offices to have permanent assigned shifts, each office would have to hire I believe it's 4 new forecasters. With Congress freezing our pay these last two years and more to come with perhaps the elimination of in-grade wage increases and locality pay, etc...I could never see the addition of 500 new forecasters.

I thought management was required to be operational mets 1 out of 10 shifts at least?

That's how I remembered it back when I was a STEP in Juneau in 2005 at least.

[isohume]

Why can't the met managers at the NWS help to alleviate the shift burden by taking some shifts? I definitely agree that NWS is not going to hire 4 new forecasters at each office...unfortunately the budget and debt is out of wack...but that's a whole other post!

Management are busy with their programs...like the WCM works in outreach, liaison with partners and the media...the SOO has training and science type projects...the MIC needs to run the whole office and deal with varying issues. They do fill in on operational shifts in a pinch or when folks take leave and no other forecasters can fill in.

I thought management was required to be operational mets 1 out of 10 shifts at least?

That's how I remembered it back when I was a STEP in Juneau in 2005 at least.

Management stays proficient in operational skill by filling in once in a while when needed. I'm not sure if it's ever 1 in 10 shifts...but its normally a 1-2 shifts a month. Management are never scheduled a normal shift rotation tho due to their assigned responsibilities that I stated to FreshAJ.

[B-Rent]

I've worked midnight shift for 4 years now. My body still isn't used to it, and I have to fight a "normal schedule" on the weekends. I don't see how people could handle rotating shifts. I'd be telling my boss to get bent.

Sent from my ADR6400L

[FreshAJ]

Yea I actually think the toughest part of the shift is sometimes "your days off". During the shift...you probably have some adrenaline going on with the work (that we all love)....but the days off can take some "adjusting".

I've worked midnight shift for 4 years now. My body still isn't used to it, and I have to fight a "normal schedule" on the weekends. I don't see how people could handle rotating shifts. I'd be telling my boss to get bent.

Sent from my ADR6400L

[usedtobe]

Yes, I agree 24 hours a day for weather makes sense and I wouldn't argue against it. I'm just saying the auto industry has done permanent shifts forever. I worked in the factories after high school and was on the midnight shift and everyone gets use to it. But your shift starts at 11 pm so by the time you get tired...4 or 5 am it's almost time to go home. My uncles, father and some neighbors worked midnights and no one really complained about it. You get put on it, you get use to it...end of story. Do your time and earn seniority and then you get your pick of shifts. Which some of them continued on midnights by choice. You actually have more time to do banking, haircuts, shopping etc. on the shift because everyone else is at work when you are off. The key is consistency, switching shifts every couple weeks seems like bananas! How can your body build any sleep normalcy. I mean you might as well consider it jet lag, you are switching your sleeping schedule by 5-8 hours every couple weeks, they say it takes your body 1 day to adjust to every 1 hour of pattern change, so 5-8 hours equates to 5-8 days to adjust, so by the time your body adjust you go and change it 7 days later. I also don't understand why they don't make the shift times more accommodating. Personally, a 10 pm to 6 am, 6 am to 2 pm, and 2pm to 10 pm seems like good shifts, especially for young ppl.

We worked the times you mentioned during winter but the shifts were an hour later during summer. The shifts are dictated by the models coming out and the times that the products wee due. I worked at a National Center so we didn't do warnings. The worse thing about rotating shifts was the turn around from midnights to days. Days to evening shifts were easy. Personally, I would have hated permanent mid shifts as to me they were a slice out of my life when I did little socializing except on my days off and even then didn't feel up to it. I much preferred having at least some of my time when I could socialize like a normal person (whatever a normal person is).

[vortmax112]

This is a good topic. As many have said, shift work is a necessary evil in this field and I'm really not sure how practical working at home is in a lot of places. For example, both at the NWS and the last place I worked forecasts are made on the GFE (graphical forecast editor). I don't think it would be very feasible to have a GFE at every employees home. Still, I think managers need to be flexible and try, within reason, to make the shift schedules such that they are not brutal. For example, I can see no good in having someone have to start their shift at 4 or 5 am. Yes, the office must be staffed 24/7 but why not have your day person come in at 7 and work 7-3? Then have your evening shift work 3-11 and the night person do 11-7. This means there is only one shift that's really bad. Having the change at 4 or 5 am makes for 2 bad shifts. Unnecessary IMO

[blizznd]

Shift work is a necessary evil at the NWS. That said, it does have advantages and personally I am very fortunate to adjust pretty easily. I am a night person so midnight shifts (mid-8a where I work) are actually my favorite as I prefer to sleep in the day. Another thing mentioned about shift work, there are different pay rates from days to nights, and rotations are done so that each person can get as equal amount of night differential as possible. Some offices do have shift preference, but that has to be an agreement among all. The person with all day shifts will end up making less money than those with more evenings and mids. It is mandated to have at least 2 on per shift for health/security reasons.

Dan - Grand Forks ND

[turtlehurricane]

Working a midnight shift permanently is basically agreeing to have nothing else in your life but work. I couldn't fathom it.

[FreshAJ]

Yea I agree. Some people are cut out for night shift and others are not. I'm glad people do find a way to make it work....but I'm hoping to change the mentality of shift work from "This is part of meteorology and this is how it's always going to be done" to "Let's figure out a healthier solution"....hence my work-from-home model. We all know shift work is needed for weather....but the question is how can we minimize the health effects of shift work? By working from home even a few days...it's less commuting, potentially more family time, a slightly better social life.

Can anyone in the NWS think of a solution on how it would be possible to work in the NWS? IF there was a way, how would you do it?

AJ

Working a midnight shift permanently is basically agreeing to have nothing else in your life but work. I couldn't fathom it.

[QVectorman]

Working a midnight shift permanently is basically agreeing to have nothing else in your life but work. I couldn't fathom it.

Not true, you actually have more time to have a social life. Just go to bed after work. Sleep 8 to 4 pm. Then you have the evening just like everyone else to do what you want, date, dinner, drinks. On friday and saturday nights you are able to stay up as late as you want at clubs and Friday night is your Saturday so you don't have to report to work. So you get your weekend. Evening shift is the shift you have nothing else in your life. You leave for work when everyone is already at work and return when everyone is in bed and can't ever go out on dates b/c it's during your work time.Fridays, forget it, for the most part you are too tired after work at 11 or 12 to even think about getting ready to go out for a meer 2 or 2.5 hours before the bars close. And any normal girl isn't going to agree to meet up with you at midnight for a date. If it's someone you have been dating and you're only available after midnight they start to get sick of it real quick. I know from experience.