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Upstate NY/North Country -> Into Winter 2011-12


Logan11

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KALB

WEDNESDAY NIGHT AND THURSDAY LOOK ACTIVE AND WITH THE MODELS

CONTINUING TO TREND COLDER IT NOW APPEARS THAT A WINTRY MIX OF

PCPN WILL OCCUR ACROSS OUR AREA LATE WEDNESDAY NIGHT INTO

THURSDAY. THE DRY WEATHER WILL LINGER INTO WEDNESDAY EVENING

BEFORE PCPN STARTS TO OVERSPREAD THE REGION FROM SOUTHWEST TO

NORTHEAST MAINLY DURING THE SECOND HALF OF THE NIGHT. PARTIAL

THICKNESS VALUES AND BUFKIT MODEL SOUNDINGS SUPPORT PTYPE BEING

MAINLY A WINTRY MIX SOUTH LATE WEDNESDAY NIGHT AND MAINLY SNOW

NORTH WITH SOUTHERN AREAS TRANSITIONING TO RAIN ON THURSDAY WHILE

NORTHERN ARES TRANSITION TO A WINTRY MIX. MODELS CONTINUE TO

INDICATE THAT THE NORTHERN AND SOUTHERN STREAM SYSTEMS MAKING UP

THIS COMPLEX STORM SYSTEM WILL NOT PHASE WITH OUR AREA IN THE

MIDDLE OF TWO AREAS OF LOW PRESSURE. MODELS ARE IN GOOD AGREEMENT

ON THE TRACK OF THE SOUTHERN STEAM SYSTEM WHICH LOOKS TO BE MUCH

CLOSER TO OUR REGION TRACKING OVER OR NEAR THE EASTERN TIP OF LONG

ISLAND EARLY THURSDAY AFTERNOON WHILE THE NORTHERN STREAM SYSTEM

DRIFTS FROM THE CENTRAL GREAT LAKES TOWARDS THE EASTERN GREAT LAKES.

QPF AMOUNTS WITH THIS COMPLEX SYSTEM STILL REMAIN HIGHLY UNCERTAIN

AND GENERALLY WENT WITH A BLEND OF THE MODELS AS WELL AS HPC

GUIDANCE. EXPECT TOTAL QPF FROM WEDNESDAY NIGHT THROUGH THURSDAY

OF AROUND A QUARTER OF AN INCH ACROSS FAR NORTHWEST PORTION OF FA

WITH MOST AREAS HAVING AROUND HALF AN INCH AND SOUTHEAST PORTION

OF FA SEEING QPF AMOUNTS IN SOME AREAS OF THREE QUARTERS OF AN

INCH TO AROUND AN INCH. AT THIS TIME IT IS DIFFICULT TO BREAK DOWN

EXACT SNOWFALL AND FREEZING RAIN TOTALS...HOWEVER MOUNTAIN AREAS

ARE EXPECTED TO SEE AT LEAST SEVERAL INCHES OF SNOW WITH LESS IN

THE VALLEYS WITH ICE ACCRETION OF A TENTH TO TWO TENTHS OF AN INCH

POSSIBLE IN MANY AREAS. WILL HIGHLIGHT THIS IN THE HWO AND MENTION

THAT IF CONDITIONS BECOME MORE CERTAIN...THEN ADVISORIES WILL

LIKELY BE ISSUED. EXPECT LOWS WEDNESDAY NIGHT TO RANGE FROM THE

LOW 20S NORTHWEST TO LOWER 30S SOUTHEAST WITH HIGHS ON THURSDAY

RANGING FROM THE LOWER 30S NORTHWEST TO LOWER 40S SOUTHEAST.

THU NT-FRI...AREA WILL REMAIN BETWEEN SECONDARY SFC LOW MOVING OFF

NEW ENGLAND COAST...AND PRIMARY LOW ACROSS THE GREAT LAKES.

HOWEVER...A MOIST E/NE FLOW WILL CONTINUE INJECTING LOW LEVEL

MOISTURE INTO THE REGION BETWEEN THE LOWS. LATER THU NT...AS AN

OCCLUDED FRONT ASSOCIATED WITH THE PRIMARY LOW APPROACHES...IN

COMBINATION WITH ADDITIONAL UPPER LEVEL FORCING FROM THE UPPER LEVEL

LOW MOVING EAST...AND A POTENT UPPER LEVEL JET MAX STREAKING NE

TOWARD THE NORTHERN MID ATLANTIC STATES...THE LOW LEVEL MOISTURE

SHOULD BE SQUEEZED OUT IN THE FORM OF A RAIN/SLEET/SNOW

MIX...TRANSITIONING TO MAINLY SNOW FRI MORNING AS MID LEVEL COOLING

DEEPENS. SEVERAL GEFS MEMBERS...AS WELL AS THE 00Z/10 OPERATIONAL

GFS AND GEM INDICATE A WAVE DEVELOPING ALONG THE OCCLUDED

FRONT...FURTHER INTENSIFYING THE PRECIP. AT THIS POINT...WILL BOOST

POPS UP INTO THE LIKELY RANGE FOR LATE THU NT INTO AT LEAST MIDDAY

FRI...HIGHEST ACROSS N AND W PORTIONS OF THE REGION WHERE FORCING

SHOULD BE MAXIMIZED. DURING THIS TIME...A PERIOD OF ACCUMULATING

SNOWFALL WILL BE POSSIBLE.

http://forecast.weat...1&highlight=off

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WITH RESPECT TO THE LOCATION OF THE LAKE SNOWS...THE 00Z GUIDANCE

SUITE HAS COME INTO NOTABLY BETTER AGREEMENT ON THE OVERALL FLOW

PATTERN ACROSS THE LOWER LAKES REGION FRIDAY AND SATURDAY...WITH THE

GFS/GEM GLOBAL AND ECMWF NOW ALL SUGGESTING AN INITIAL SOUTH-

SOUTHWESTERLY FLOW FRIDAY MORNING...WHICH THEN QUICKLY VEERS TO

WEST-SOUTHWESTERLY AND THEN WESTERLY FRIDAY AFTERNOON AND

EVENING...FOLLOWED BY FURTHER VEERING TO A WEST-NORTHWESTERLY

ORIENTATION ON SATURDAY. SUCH A SCENARIO WOULD FORCE THE LAKE SNOWS

TO DEVELOP ACROSS AND/OR NORTH OF THE BUFFALO AND WATERTOWN AREAS

DURING THE FIRST PART OF FRIDAY...BEFORE SHIFTING SOUTH INTO THE

MORE TRADITIONAL SNOW BELTS FRIDAY AFTERNOON AND EVENING...THEN TO

AREAS EAST-SOUTHEAST OF THE LAKES ON SATURDAY.

THE ABOVE SAID...MUCH QUESTION REMAINS WITH RESPECT TO THE INTENSITY

OF THE LAKE SNOWS /AND THE RESULTING POTENTIAL FOR SIGNIFICANT

ACCUMS/ ON FRIDAY. THE MODELS HAVE UNIVERSALLY TRENDED TOWARD A MUCH

DRIER INITIAL AIRMASS DUE TO PRONOUNCED DRY SLOTTING FRIDAY

MORNING...AS WELL AS TOWARD A HIGHER AMOUNT OF SPEED SHEAR GIVEN THE

TIGHTENING PRESSURE GRADIENT AND INCREASING WIND FIELDS ALOFT.

COUPLED WITH A SHORTER INITIAL SOUTH-SOUTHWESTERLY FETCH...THESE

FACTORS COULD VERY WELL PREVENT THE DEVELOPMENT OF ORGANIZED LAKE

SNOW BANDS UNTIL LARGER-SCALE MOISTURE BEGINS TO DEEPEN AND WINDS

BEGIN TO VEER DURING THE AFTERNOON AND EVENING...THEREBY INCREASING

THE EFFECTIVE FETCH ACROSS THE LAKES. BY THAT TIME HOWEVER...THE

BANDS SHOULD ALREADY BE ON THE MOVE SOUTH...WHICH COULD ACT TO

LIMIT POTENTIAL ACCUMULATIONS NORTHEAST OF THE LAKES. AT THIS

POINT...THE BEST POTENTIAL FOR ORGANIZED LAKE SNOWS AND MORE

SIGNIFICANT ACCUMS LOOKS TO BE ACROSS THE MORE TRADITIONAL SNOW

BELTS DURING FRIDAY NIGHT AND SATURDAY...WHEN THE BANDS SHOULD BE

MORE STEADY-STATE AND BOTH MOISTURE AND SHEAR PROFILES WILL BE MORE

FAVORABLE. ALL THIS STATED...THIS TIME PERIOD IS STILL 3 DAYS OUT

AND LOTS CAN CHANGE DURING BETWEEN NOW AND FRIDAY...SO STAY TUNED!

LOOKING OUT A BIT DEEPER INTO THE PERIOD...THE 00Z GFS/GEM/ECMWF ARE

NOW ALL IN GOOD AGREEMENT ON RIDGING DEVELOPING SATURDAY NIGHT AND

SUNDAY ALONG WITH A CORRESPONDING DIMINISHMENT TO THE LAKE

SNOWS...FOLLOWED BY THE SUBSEQUENT PASSAGE OF A CLIPPER-TYPE SYSTEM

TO OUR NORTH SUNDAY NIGHT AND MONDAY. WARM ADVECTION ASSOCIATED WITH

THIS LATTER FEATURE SHOULD BRING A MORE GENERAL CHANCE OF SOME LIGHT

SNOW SHOWERS...ALONG WITH SOME MODERATION IN TEMPS BY EARLY NEXT

WEEK.

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Haha what a ****ing mess. Here we are just 3 days from the start of the event and none of the models agree on anything. The Euro that looked damn good for days and days has now changed to a non even. Lmfao now do u see why i am a pessimist and didnt get my hopes up? My new thing is ill get excited when ALL the models agree within 24 hours of the event. Another #WinterFAIL

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Haha what a ****ing mess. Here we are just 3 days from the start of the event and none of the models agree on anything. The Euro that looked damn good for days and days has now changed to a non even. Lmfao now do u see why i am a pessimist and didnt get my hopes up? My new thing is ill get excited when ALL the models agree within 24 hours of the event. Another #WinterFAIL

God its only snow! You get so bent out of shape! The tracking part of it is most fun for me. Thats why I should of been a MET! I go skiing/boarding every sunday all winter, so I get to enjoy it either way! What good is snow falling outside your house if you can't do any outdoor activities in it to enjoy it! =)

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God its only snow, the tracking part of it is most fun for me. Thats why I should of been a MET! I go skiing/boarding every sunday all winter, so I get to enjoy it either way! What good is snow falling outside your house if you can't do any outdoor activities in it to enjoy it! =)

I know its only snow....? I just think its funnh u get real into it when everything looks great and post 20 things a day about it but then when it doesnt look so good you say "god its only snow"... i dont set myself up for dissappointment like you checking every run of every model only to see it change to ****. I do lots of winter activities myself too. Its the middle of january and not even 6" has fallen here. Im frusterated with this winter not this storm. I think this event hasnt looked good for days but u can think whatever u want.
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That is why you shouldnt even consider getting excited for a lake effect event outside of 24-36 hours. This will be another non event by the looks of it. Dry air, shear, and limited time with a S/WSW flow. It has **** written all over it.

Im still excited, I won't be disappointed either way. Your flipping out over snow and its a joke lol...

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I know its only snow....? I just think its funnh u get real into it when everything looks great and post 20 things a day about it but then when it doesnt look so good you say "god its only snow"... i dont set myself up for dissappointment like you checking every run of every model only to see it change to ****. I do lots of winter activities myself too. Its the middle of january and not even 6" has fallen here. Im frusterated with this winter not this storm. I think this event hasnt looked good for days but u can think whatever u want.

If you do lots of winter activities then why aren't you excited? Ellicottville will likely get a foot+ out of this. So wouldn't that encourage you to be happy instead of "*****" off about it? LOL

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I don't know but in my opinion the most exciting part is following a storm that possibly may happen, even if it doesn't then the actually act of the storm happening. haha! Its similar to going on vacation. You look forward to it for months, but when it actually comes, its not as fun as you thought it would be. The anticipation of the event is always the most exciting.

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I don't know but in my opinion the most exciting part is following a storm that possibly may happen, even if it doesn't then the actually act of the storm happening. haha! Its similar to going on vacation. You look forward to it for months, but when it actually comes, its not as fun as you thought it would be. The anticipation of the event is always the most exciting.

I agree, if things look good, but they dont. So what's there to look forward to?
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I know its only snow....? I just think its funnh u get real into it when everything looks great and post 20 things a day about it but then when it doesnt look so good you say "god its only snow"... i dont set myself up for dissappointment like you checking every run of every model only to see it change to ****. I do lots of winter activities myself too. Its the middle of january and not even 6" has fallen here. Im frusterated with this winter not this storm. I think this event hasnt looked good for days but u can think whatever u want.

If this isn't flipping out, I dont know what is.... "I think this event hasnt looked good for days but u can think whatever u want." If you thought this for the last few days, you need to learn how to read models better because they looked amazing for days. The only flaw has been the last day with the latest euro and the dry air in the NAM.

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If this isn't flipping out, I dont know what is.... "I think this event hasnt looked good for days but u can think whatever u want." If you thought this for the last few days, you need to learn how to read models better because they looked amazing for days. The only flaw has been the last day with the latest euro and the dry air in the NAM.

Haha dude thats definitly not flipping out. If u think thags flipping out then you need to learn how to interpret people correctly. And no things havnt looked good. The eur was the onlg model that looked decent. The gfs had winds too northerly at first then too southerly and dry air has been in the gfs and nam for the past 2 days. Now the euro looks like **** too. I may be overly pessimistic but your definitly over optimistic.
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Haha dude thats definitly not flipping out. If u think thags flipping out then you need to learn how to interpret people correctly. And no things havnt looked good. The eur was the onlg model that looked decent. The gfs had winds too northerly at first then too southerly and dry air has been in the gfs and nam for the past 2 days. Now the euro looks like **** too. I may be overly pessimistic but your definitly over optimistic.

Hmm no. The GFS looked good since 2 days ago, and continues to look good. The superior Euro has looked good for 4 days straight continously along with the ensembles as OSU pointed out last night. The last run is the only run in which it showed barely any LES. The NAM looked good a day ago, the last few runs brought in dry air. The CMC has looked good for days as well. And the NWS still thinks otherwise, so how is that being overly optimistic? I could care less where the LES sets up as long as it does, fresh powder is awesome to board in.

"MUCH COLDER AIR WILL OVERSPREAD THE REGION LATER THURSDAY NIGHT

AND FRIDAY...AND SHOULD TRIGGER THE DEVELOPMENT OF POTENTIALLY

SIGNIFICANT LAKE EFFECT SNOW DOWNWIND OF LAKE ERIE. WHILE IT REMAINS

DIFFICULT TO PINPOINT THE EXACT LOCATION OF THE LAKE SNOWS THIS

FAR IN ADVANCE...EARLY INDICATIONS SUGGEST THE POTENTIAL FOR THE

LAKE SNOWS TO DEVELOP OVER OR NORTH OF THE BUFFALO AREA LATE

THURSDAY NIGHT OR FRIDAY MORNING...BEFORE SHIFTING SOUTH TO THE

SOUTHERN TIER FRIDAY AFTERNOON AND EVENING."

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Hmm no. The GFS looked good since 2 days ago, and continues to look good. The superior Euro has looked good for 4 days straight continously along with the ensembles as OSU pointed out last night. The last run is the only run in which it showed barely any LES. The NAM looked good a day ago, the last few runs brought in dry air. The CMC has looked good for days as well. And the NWS still thinks otherwise, so how is that being overly optimistic? I could care less where the LES sets up as long as it does, fresh powder is awesome to board in.

"MUCH COLDER AIR WILL OVERSPREAD THE REGION LATER THURSDAY NIGHT

AND FRIDAY...AND SHOULD TRIGGER THE DEVELOPMENT OF POTENTIALLY

SIGNIFICANT LAKE EFFECT SNOW DOWNWIND OF LAKE ERIE. WHILE IT REMAINS

DIFFICULT TO PINPOINT THE EXACT LOCATION OF THE LAKE SNOWS THIS

FAR IN ADVANCE...EARLY INDICATIONS SUGGEST THE POTENTIAL FOR THE

LAKE SNOWS TO DEVELOP OVER OR NORTH OF THE BUFFALO AREA LATE

THURSDAY NIGHT OR FRIDAY MORNING...BEFORE SHIFTING SOUTH TO THE

SOUTHERN TIER FRIDAY AFTERNOON AND EVENING."

You obviously foregot to read this as well...

"

THE MODELS HAVE UNIVERSALLY TRENDED TOWARD A MUCH

DRIER INITIAL AIRMASS DUE TO PRONOUNCED DRY SLOTTING FRIDAY

MORNING...AS WELL AS TOWARD A HIGHER AMOUNT OF SPEED SHEAR GIVEN THE

TIGHTENING PRESSURE GRADIENT AND INCREASING WIND FIELDS ALOFT.

COUPLED WITH A SHORTER INITIAL SOUTH-SOUTHWESTERLY FETCH...THESE

FACTORS COULD VERY WELL PREVENT THE DEVELOPMENT OF ORGANIZED LAKE

SNOW BANDS UNTIL LARGER-SCALE MOISTURE BEGINS TO DEEPEN AND WINDS

BEGIN TO VEER DURING THE AFTERNOON AND EVENING...THEREBY INCREASING

THE EFFECTIVE FETCH ACROSS THE LAKES. BY THAT TIME HOWEVER...THE

BANDS SHOULD ALREADY BE ON THE MOVE SOUTH...WHICH COULD ACT TO

LIMIT POTENTIAL ACCUMULATIONS NORTHEAST OF THE LAKES. AT THIS

POINT...THE BEST POTENTIAL FOR ORGANIZED LAKE SNOWS AND MORE

SIGNIFICANT ACCUMS LOOKS TO BE ACROSS THE MORE TRADITIONAL SNOW

BELTS DURING FRIDAY NIGHT AND SATURDAY...WHEN THE BANDS SHOULD BE

MORE STEADY-STATE AND BOTH MOISTURE AND SHEAR PROFILES WILL BE MORE

FAVORABLE."

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Everyone is frustrated by the record lack of activity this winter, so the animosity is somewhat understandable. Us crack addicts need our fix. A little cooperation from the snow gods will take the edge off. But in the meantime, it is annoying to read post after post of two people squabbling over who likes to track more versus who likes snow more versus who takes it more seriously, etc. Whatever. We all just want some activity from mother nature - let's not take it out on each other. Or if you insist on doing it, take it private so no one else has to wade through the posts!

...

Lots of animosity around here...time for everyone to take a break?

NAM and GFS look pretty decent for BUF imo...I was pretty dejected to lose the euro last night.

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Some ramblings on Wednesday night's-Thursday's storm:

Looking at data from the UK and EC data from last night: The UK has been the leader in a colder scenario over the past few days. UK has mostly snow for the S'rn Adirondacks to Lake George with snow mixing with and changing to sleet/freezing rain Saratoga Springs-Glens Falls corridor. Then going back to some light snow or snow showers late Thursday afternoon. Elsewhere snow will mix with sleet and freezing rain then briefly change to rain before going back to some snow showers late Thursday.

Last night's EC data supports mostly snow across the Adirondacks. EC verbatim briefly changes precip to rain here in Albany before going back to a light wintry mix Thursday afternoon. To the north of Albany across the Hudson Valley EC supports brief change to sleet/freezing rain then back to light snow/snow shower late Thursday.

Areas south of Albany will change to rain then end as a period of light snow or snow showers late Thursday.

This morning's NAM is similar to last night's EC for Albany and points south while keeping precip mostly snow north except for a brief mix over the Upper Hudson Valley. Based on a blend of last night's EC/UK with this morning's NAM PRELIMINARY snow accumulations are as follows: 1-3 inches around the CD, 1" or less to the south. 2-4" across the Mohawk Valley, Upper Hudson Valley, Catskills and mountains of Western New England and 4-7 inches Northern Fulton County to Lake George and across the Adirondacks. Again all of these are both preliminary and based off 3 of the 4 models that we use to forecast. Still waiting on this morning's GFS run and the morning runs of the UK and EC.

Since the snow start is still more than 24 hours away I really cannot come out with any forecast numbers just yet. Also too the storm system will be complex as in having multiple low centers one of which will pass off to the northwest of Albany and the other tracking from the Virginia Capes to near Rhode Island. Oft times with such a setup as this there is a bit of a "dead" zone for precipitation between the two systems; this dead zone may track over us (ENY) if it does than the amount of "liquid" or precipitation could be less than our models are forecasting. If this is the case then snowfall amounts could wind up less than my above PRELIMNARY forecast. Also too the low to the west may throw in more warmer air aloft as well cuasing a faster change or mix of p-types, too. Again if this were to happen then snowfall amounts would be less.

That's my .02 cents for now.

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Andy is there really any icing concerns -- accumulation issues--- with this mess??

O/T --but my son played the national anthem at a phantoms game last November. I did not remember to ask you if were able to catch it.

Hope your mending up well. I am glad to see you back and hope your feeling good.

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Andy is there really any icing concerns -- accumulation issues--- with this mess??

O/T --but my son played the national anthem at a phantoms game last November. I did not remember to ask you if were able to catch it.

Hope your mending up well. I am glad to see you back and hope your feeling good.

Icing could be a few hours of some ice glazing/accretion BUT not a prolonged icing event IMO.

Sorry I didn't catch your son playing the anthem; I haven't been to a Phantoms game yet this year.

As for the mending its still on going baby steps in some areas big leaps forward in others and also some steps backwards, too.

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