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Upstate NY/North Country -> Into Winter 2011-12


Logan11

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You guys in WNY would be more of an expert in your climatology than me, but where is the worst spot out there for snow? I am guessing somewhere north of Buffalo in the Niagara Frontier, no? Looking at maps, it looks like some places there average less than Albany.

Ayudd you live in the worst possibly place for a snow lover in WNY. Right along the lake shore in North Buffalo. You should move somewhere else. haha!

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Everywhere in WNY gets more snow then Albany. 200+ inches a year in the southern tier to 100-150 in Southtowns/Wyoming county. Buffalo airport averages around 100 inches per year.The least amount of snow is right along lakeshore because the temperature is always a few degrees warmer then inland areas. Also northwest of Buffalo near Niagara Falls usually receives the least amount per year.

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looking around, seems as though some places in S ontario and WNY are definitely ahead of schedule with the switch to snow, by a couple or few hours even. YYZ west burbs have switched over.

RGEM/SREFs have a decent handle on this in S. ontario but not in WNY.

for NNY/eastern ontario and SW quebec, the latest euro remains weaker and further east by about 30 miles once it moves into our neck of the woods. Euro has remained persistent with this track, and remains the sole easterly outlier. never a comfortable feeling, especially with its insistence. the result is the heaviest snow falls E of ottawa and just N of montreal, but MTL sees more frozen than on the other models.....basically the forecast from yesterday. other models are not showing this anymore though.

the SPC surface analysis does show a low which is stronger than the euro indicated at this time though, but it is a loose low presure center.
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It's not far western NY, but I can tell you that the area around Waverly, NY/Sayre, PA is a snow desert. I understand they average under 45 inches per year. East of the lake effect, low elevations, too far west for most Noreasters, torched pretty fast on Ohio Valley type lows....

You guys in WNY would be more of an expert in your climatology than me, but where is the worst spot out there for snow? I am guessing somewhere north of Buffalo in the Niagara Frontier, no? Looking at maps, it looks like some places there average less than Albany.

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Yes, I was certainly thinking of those areas Rick, but I thought the area near Niagara Falls, north of the main Erie lake belt averaged around what Toronto does, which is only in the 50-60" range I believe. I could be mistaken about that area (NWS average snowfall maps and coops could be wrong I suppose), but I am fairly sure you are correct about the Waverly area.

It's not far western NY, but I can tell you that the area around Waverly, NY/Sayre, PA is a snow desert. I understand they average under 45 inches per year. East of the lake effect, low elevations, too far west for most Noreasters, torched pretty fast on Ohio Valley type lows....

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KALB has seen their average 30 year snowfall go in the crapper for successive 30 year spans. 1961-90 was like 66", 1971-00 was 62" and 1981-2010 is down to 59".... not sure what has happened to the climate.

ALB proper downslopes so they also have more challenges keeping snow on the ground.

I can only estimate, but I think I average over 80" here I think (25 miles west) ...maybe even 85".

Also one plus about this climate is we do not torch as much as WNY, so I bet we have more days with 1" on the ground than BUF per winter...for what that's worth.

.

Everywhere in WNY gets more snow then Albany. 200+ inches a year in the southern tier to 100-150 in Southtowns/Wyoming county. Buffalo airport averages around 100 inches per year.The least amount of snow is right along lakeshore because the temperature is always a few degrees warmer then inland areas. Also northwest of Buffalo near Niagara Falls usually receives the least amount per year.

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For KALB, luck may be a part of it, as some other stations north, south, east, and west have seen their respective averages climb or remain steady. For you I would certainly say closer to 85". I have an old grainy black and white map (tried scanning many times, doesn't come out well) done up by the local hydrologists/meteorologists of average local snowfall for just the greater ALB viewing area. They use Albany's average (60-65" at the time) as a base, and use + or - contours around it for the change in snowfall. Out here I am in the +10 contour, and your area is more in the +20 with the added elevation. Both respectable averages, relatively, though I know we can't compare to direct lake effect areas.

While ALB proper does downslope, you see it affect averages a lot more immediately south of ALB...especially from Ravena on south in the Hudson Valley where averages drop considerably below even ALB's (you would know this as well I'm sure, as I remember you saying you moved from that are to your current location).

KALB has seen their average 30 year snowfall go in the crapper for successive 30 year spans. 1961-90 was like 66", 1971-00 was 62" and 1981-2010 is down to 59".... not sure what has happened to the climate.

ALB proper downslopes so they also have more challenges keeping snow on the ground.

I can only estimate, but I think I average over 80" here I think (25 miles west) ...maybe even 85".

Also one plus about this climate is we do not torch as much as WNY, so I bet we have more days with 1" on the ground than BUF per winter...for what that's worth.

.

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Yes, I was certainly thinking of those areas Rick, but I thought the area near Niagara Falls, north of the main Erie lake belt averaged around what Toronto does, which is only in the 50-60" range I believe. I could be mistaken about that area (NWS average snowfall maps and coops could be wrong I suppose), but I am fairly sure you are correct about the Waverly area.

Youngstown NY, in northern Niagara county most likely avgs close to Toronto. Its only 20 miles across the lake from the GTA.

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Whatever St. Catherines averages ...must be just about the same as Youngstown or Lewiston.

I was out there for work a few weeks ago in Hamilton..stayed in Oakville. It was a pretty nice area, albeit on the dry side of the lake. :)

Youngstown NY, in northern Niagara county most likely avgs close to Toronto. Its only 20 miles across the lake from the GTA.

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one thing that i have noticed all day is that the snow is more prevalent/earlier as ptype on the west side than the models have indicated..

gonna have to watch this as it is still in the realm of the possibility that MTL sees a lot more frozen than wet on the front end...something the euro tried to imply...in which case my zone C would have to be extended further S to include MTL metro.

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