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SE Mid-Long Range Discussion


CAD_Wedge_NC

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12Z Euro a lot different than the GFS, matches pretty well with the 00Z ensembles- no really cold air except the occasional frontal passage like we have already been seeing- the 240 hr Euro has a large negative height anomaly over the Greenland area as did the 00Z ensemble mean. I trust these a lot more than the fantasy GFS....

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Allan Hufman's (RaleighWx) latest blog has me a little excited. Next week into Christmas looks interesting. I know the timing has to be right, but at least it is something to watch for a change. Could we have another white Christmas here?

http://www.examiner.com/weather-in-raleigh/rain-by-friday-wintry-chances-christmas-week

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Allan Hufman's (RaleighWx) latest blog has me a little excited. Next week into Christmas looks interesting. I know the timing has to be right, but at least it is something to watch for a change. Could we have another white Christmas here?

http://www.examiner....-christmas-week

If ifs and buts were candy and nuts we'd all have a Merry Christmas. biggrin.png

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Allan Hufman's (RaleighWx) latest blog has me a little excited. Next week into Christmas looks interesting. I know the timing has to be right, but at least it is something to watch for a change. Could we have another white Christmas here?

http://www.examiner....-christmas-week

Technically, last year was not a white christmas...considering snow started falling at approx. 6:40pm in Raleigh.

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Another question for met/ expert to chime in on.

With all the mega cold building up at the polls, seems to me the main ingreedent to deliver it down into the US would be the PNA going positive. The NAO going neg acts as a funneling mechanisim as well, but it's main benefit to us is that it locks the cold in for a prolonged period by way of blocking, so the cold doesn't just come in and out in 72 hours. Therefore since we know the extreme cold source is their, The ridge building out in the pacific/west coast (+PNA) is really all we need to start the process of bleeding/dislodging this air southbound. Of course if the NAO is positive, then we need a really robust + pna to get the artic air driven more towards our area (SE) I would think. Instead of trying to pull 2 teeth (-NAO/+PNA) maybe we can get by with just getting one pulled(+pna), therefore providing an oppurtunity to get the cold needed for some fun-n-games. IMO at the moment it appears easier to get a +PNA as oppossed to waiting on some strato warming to translate into a -AO the -NAO.

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Another question for met/ expert to chime in on.

With all the mega cold building up at the polls, seems to me the main ingreedent to deliver it down into the US would be the PNA going positive. The NAO going neg acts as a funneling mechanisim as well, but it's main benefit to us is that it locks the cold in for a prolonged period by way of blocking, so the cold doesn't just come in and out in 72 hours. Therefore since we know the extreme cold source is their, The ridge building out in the pacific/west coast (+PNA) is really all we need to start the process of bleeding/dislodging this air southbound. Of course if the NAO is positive, then we need a really robust + pna to get the artic air driven more towards our area (SE) I would think. Instead of trying to pull 2 teeth (-NAO/+PNA) maybe we can get by with just getting one pulled(+pna), therefore providing an oppurtunity to get the cold needed for some fun-n-games. IMO at the moment it appears easier to get a +PNA as oppossed to waiting on some strato warming to translate into a -AO the -NAO.

If you think back to last winter, we saw a -AO/-NAO/-PNA pattern for the entire month of December. The -AO/-NAO pattern was the mechanism for delivering and locking in the cold air, overwelming the negative effects of the -PNA. As we moved into January, the +PNA kicked in at times to aid the cold air delivery as the AO/NAO flipped back and forth - and +. So, both the -NAO and +PNA are patterns that can deliver cold air. If relying solely on a +PNA pattern, you are likely going to have to rely on proper timing of the cold air with storm systems to get a widespread winter storm...whereas a sustained -NAO pattern can sustain the cold air longer and widen the timing window for potential winter storms.

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If you think back to last winter, we saw a -AO/-NAO/-PNA pattern for the entire month of December. The -AO/-NAO pattern was the mechanism for delivering and locking in the cold air, overwelming the negative effects of the -PNA. As we moved into January, the +PNA kicked in at times to aid the cold air delivery as the AO/NAO flipped back and forth - and +. So, both the -NAO and +PNA are patterns that can deliver cold air. If relying solely on a +PNA pattern, you are likely going to have to rely on proper timing of the cold air with storm systems to get a widespread winter storm...whereas a sustained -NAO pattern can sustain the cold air longer and widen the timing window for potential winter storms.

No objections to the last couple of posts on this, the only thing I would add is that without a negative NAO it will be harder to keep the systems suppressed as a result.

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Really? It snowed on Christmas. It's a white Christmas.

Yeah, really. Obviously you think a flake in the evening/night of christmas day counts, I don't. A lot of people consider a white christmas 1" of accumulating snow or more on christmas day. That didn't happen for our area.

A white christmas to me is opening presents and looking outside seeing the ground, trees, cars, etc covered in white snow, hence, a white christmas.

My area accumulated around 0.5" MAYBE, yours most likely a trace before midnight on 12/26.

accum.20101225.and.20101226.separate.gif

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Yeah, really. Obviously you think a flake in the evening/night of christmas day counts, I don't. A lot of people consider a white christmas 1" of accumulating snow or more on christmas day. That didn't happen for our area.

A white christmas to me is opening presents and looking outside seeing the ground, trees, cars, etc covered in white snow, hence, a white christmas.

My area accumulated around 0.5" MAYBE, yours most likely a trace before midnight on 12/26.

This pic summed up that storm for me

tumblr_li5l77KlwB1qgp4xy.jpg

It started snowing around 7 PM in CLT IIRC just light stuff but to me that counted as a white Christmas. I don't care how the NWS labels it.

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This pic summed up that storm for me

It started snowing around 7 PM in CLT IIRC just light stuff but to me that counted as a white Christmas. I don't care how the NWS labels it.

It started around that time in Chapel Hill, as well. The double giddiness of it being Christmas and anticipating the snow starting was better than it all being over by the morning IMO.

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If you think back to last winter, we saw a -AO/-NAO/-PNA pattern for the entire month of December. The -AO/-NAO pattern was the mechanism for delivering and locking in the cold air, overwelming the negative effects of the -PNA. As we moved into January, the +PNA kicked in at times to aid the cold air delivery as the AO/NAO flipped back and forth - and +. So, both the -NAO and +PNA are patterns that can deliver cold air. If relying solely on a +PNA pattern, you are likely going to have to rely on proper timing of the cold air with storm systems to get a widespread winter storm...whereas a sustained -NAO pattern can sustain the cold air longer and widen the timing window for potential winter storms.

excellent analysis.

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Until they get too suppressed. Did You guys got left out of the heavy snow last year?

we seemed to miss the heavy snow, and have missed what i consider heavy snow since the 90s. We have had a couple of 4 inch events here since that time, but largely have gotten nickled and dimed. This is all without looking so I guess some of this could be perception, but I usually don't forget really good ones like 96, 98, and of course 93.

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we seemed to miss the heavy snow, and have missed what i consider heavy snow since the 90s. We have had a couple of 4 inch events here since that time, but largely have gotten nickled and dimed. This is all without looking so I guess some of this could be perception, but I usually don't forget really good ones like 96, 98, and of course 93.

Didn't you all get more than that from the December 2009 storm? Also, what about the January 30, 2010 one?

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Yeah, really. Obviously you think a flake in the evening/night of christmas day counts, I don't. A lot of people consider a white christmas 1" of accumulating snow or more on christmas day. That didn't happen for our area.

A white christmas to me is opening presents and looking outside seeing the ground, trees, cars, etc covered in white snow, hence, a white christmas.

My area accumulated around 0.5" MAYBE, yours most likely a trace before midnight on 12/26.

accum.20101225.and.20101226.separate.gif

On the top map, the one for Dec 25.. It has my area painted in the .5 zone.. (Southwestern Cleveland County).. That isn't entirely accurate though.. I went outside at around 10 PM Christmas night and measures right at 2 inches in 3 different spots around my house.. On my back patio, on the driveway and in the grass..

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Yeah, really. Obviously you think a flake in the evening/night of christmas day counts, I don't. A lot of people consider a white christmas 1" of accumulating snow or more on christmas day. That didn't happen for our area.

A white christmas to me is opening presents and looking outside seeing the ground, trees, cars, etc covered in white snow, hence, a white christmas.

My area accumulated around 0.5" MAYBE, yours most likely a trace before midnight on 12/26.

It started snowing Christmas evening and was coming down hard Christmas night. That's enough to call it a white Christmas for me.

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