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November 2011 Obs/Forecasting Discussion


WxUSAF

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Well the ECMWF EPS Control model has a fantasy blizzard on Nov 22/23 for the NE (NY and points north), will that make JI happy? The ENS GFS shows a little weak low off the coast of Boston at the same time frame.

Quite the opposite. Just jump into the next MA tracking thread and read Ji's posts once the models flip to a DC skip and NE hit. Winter is too much fun around here for a lot of reasons.

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Over the last 20 years november has warmed more than any other month.

If you compare the most recent decade (2001-2010) in DC with the earliest decade for which there are official records (1871-1880), November has warmed 7.1 degrees, which easily makes it number one. September is second with a 5.1 degree warm-up, May is eleventh with a 1.2 degree warm-up, and July is last with only a 0.9 degree warm-up. On the other hand, if you look at the most recent 30-year period (1981-2010) and compare that with the oldest 30-year period (1871-1900), March is number one with a 5.3 degree warm-up, November is second with a 4.7 degree warm-up, June is eleventh with a 2.2 degree warm-up, and May is last with a 1.9 degree warm-up.

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I honestly haven't followed Dave since the last time he was on the Boards

it's just a gut feeling that for whatever reason, other than 76/77, cold always gets delayed in the east longer than ensembles/models think

That's just how it almost always is with any pattern change during any time of the year. Models tend to rush pattern changes, whether it be from warm to cold or cold to warm. The challenge is figuring out when they finally get the timing right.

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In the last long term PDO cycle there were only 3 serious Ninos in 32 winters....Nina will be dominant for a while probably. Honestly, our best bet is not just to hope for the next niño, but also to hope it doesn't flip the next winter. Neutral years/periods after niño aren't bad....the PAC is usually more helpful and you can get a southern stream.....if we are in a 3 year Nina, I still would bet on an 8-14" storm either this winter or next with the blocking regime we are in and all the big storms lately...maybe both winters?

I'd guess the same. We'll get to the median at least during one of the next two years. I'm not that discouraged by the pattern right now.

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I'd guess the same. We'll get to the median at least during one of the next two years. I'm not that discouraged by the pattern right now.

I'm not either but I think my posts imply that I am. I'm just a weenie that hates a delayed start to cold and potential snow.

I'm pretty optimistic about a good # of trackable threats and some good cold periods during the winter. Plus, I'm really enjoying spending time outside right now. Nothing better than deep blue skies and comfy temps. Even blowing leaves is a nice way to enjoy the weather.

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I really don't know why anyone wants cold right now. Let's just enjoy the weather for a couple of weeks. I'll be thrilled if the cold comes on the weekend after Thanksgiving. All the outdoor chores complete, the belly full, football going strong. That's when winter begins, not after election day.

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I'd guess the same. We'll get to the median at least during one of the next two years. I'm not that discouraged by the pattern right now.

I don't mind delayed starts. Early events usually mix for me anyway. Not to say we won't have something to track in December. I'm pretty sure we will. But I don't need cold in November. How is the MJO doing? On my phone now. I haven't checked. I think it was racing through the early and middle phases a couple weeks ago?

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I don't mind delayed starts. Early events usually mix for me anyway. Not to say we won't have something to track in December. I'm pretty sure we will. But I don't need cold in November. How is the MJO doing? On my phone now. I haven't checked. I think it was racing through the early and middle phases a couple weeks ago?

Cruising through phases 4-5

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I don't think we have to worry about that winter, but I wouldn't be shocked to see Dec or Jan above normal. Lots of uncertainty, but we aren't seeing a +6 winter lol.

I see more of a 1999-2000 winter where we had a good 2 week run and the rest was pure crap. Wxrisk is hyping a major pattern shift again based on 12z euro

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I see more of a 1999-2000 winter where we had a good 2 week run and the rest was pure crap. Wxrisk is hyping a major pattern shift again based on 12z euro

99-00 pretty much featured a +AO/NAO combo through djf. I don't really see that happening this year. It might but I think the odds are on our side of at least having a -AO for a decent stretch.

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I really don't know why anyone wants cold right now. Let's just enjoy the weather for a couple of weeks. I'll be thrilled if the cold comes on the weekend after Thanksgiving. All the outdoor chores complete, the belly full, football going strong. That's when winter begins, not after election day.

yes...our average high is 61.....why does anyone want a "good" pattern now?

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Was supposed to get 4-6" and another 4-6" the next day. I got 13" that night and almost nothing the next day as we got dry-slotted hardcore here in Cent. VA

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nice....we should be in the better phases later this month or early December...people should be happy...why do we want a trough in the east on November 9th?

absolutely

and for those of us stupid/pathetic enough to hold out hope for a 95/96 faux redux like JI and absolutely not me, ENSO this year is a tenth of a degree Celsius warmer than AUG-OCT/95 tri-monthly

http://www.cpc.ncep....ensoyears.shtml

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hopefully it's in the 60s all winter.. snow is cold.

;)

i dont mind occasional torches and thaws in the winter....but it does get cold and I want something to track or at least a pattern with potential....it is frustrating when a 7-10 day cold period begins and/or ends with a 47 degree rainstorm, but that it probably in the cards a couple/few times this winter

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i dont mind occasional torches and thaws in the winter....but it does get cold and I want something to track or at least a pattern with potential....it is frustrating when a 7-10 day cold period begins and/or ends with a 47 degree rainstorm, but that it probably in the cards a couple/few times this winter

Cold/dry, warm/wet.

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i dont mind occasional torches and thaws in the winter....but it does get cold and I want something to track or at least a pattern with potential....it is frustrating when a 7-10 day cold period begins and/or ends with a 47 degree rainstorm, but that it probably in the cards a couple/few times this winter

Isn't that kind of necessary in a Nina though? I think before a pattern change from warm to cold storms would track to our north at first usually, then later I think disturbances ride up the coast along the stale boundary or swing to our south which would require some SE ridge? I can't recall a pattern flip here in winter starting and ending with snow/mix.

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