Ginx snewx Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 Not surprised about the non-payment, if true. It can take months before they true-up the bill so to speak. Probably has to go through a couple of accounting cycles before funds are disbursed, and it has been less than two months since the last Irene contractors left the state. All my contractors at work were paid middle of last month and this is a multimillion dollar company with thousands of vendors, no excuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginx snewx Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 Mind boggling that this wasn't done thereby preventing this entire problem not to mention the aesthetics. Million per mile now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastalWx Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 Put them underground....(yeah, more expensive initially). I don't think that is feasible unfortunately and they can't cut every tree within 50 ft or so. But, I do know that people have refused to let the crews trim some limbs near the wires and those limbs actually came down on the wires ironically. The trimming will help, but it won't stop from higher crowns of trees or whole trees from falling. Still, many of the outages were from limbs coming down on the wires, so any little cutback helps. On the other hand, you don't want to see trees look like the Charlie Brown Christmas tree either and be left with a hack job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowman21 Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 CL&P really blew it this time This is what I'm really wondering. Is it endemic to all power companies in a similar situation, or is it something unique to Connecticut? PSNH and WMECO are owned by the same parent company if I'm not mistaken. Are they just as bad? I hate to just blindly bash CL&P if this is the modus operandi of power companies in general during a natural disaster. What we've seen in the last few months is pretty much unprecedented, and perhaps expectations are not commensurate with the abilities of the agencies charged with keeping the lights on when a large part of the infrastructure is wiped out beyond their control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Organizing Low Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 Ryan just owning CLP http://ryanhanrahan....-storm-for-clp/ awesome hopefully he crushes them on air too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginx snewx Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 Million per mile now. http://psc.wi.gov/thelibrary/publications/electric/electric11.pdf it's not that simpleI was under The estimated cost for constructing underground transmission lines ranges from 4 to 14 times more expensive than overhead lines of the same voltage and same distance. A typical new 69 kV overhead single-circuit transmission line costs approximately $285,000 per mile as opposed to $1.5 million per mile for a new 69 kV underground line (without the terminals). A new 138 kV overhead line costs approximately $390,000 per mile as opposed to $2 million per mile for underground (without the terminals). These costs are determined by the local environment, the distances between splices and termination points, and the number of ancillary facilities required. Other issues that make underground transmission lines more costly are right-of-way access, start-up complications, construction limitations in urban areas, conflicts with other utilities, trenching construction issues, crossing natural or manmade barriers, and the potential need for forced cooling facilities. Other transmission facilities in or near the line may also require new or upgraded facilities to balance power issues such fault currents and voltage transients, all adding to the cost. While it may be useful to sometimes compare the general cost differences between overhead and underground construction, the actual costs for underground may be quite different. Underground transmission construction can be very site-specific, especially for higher voltage lines. Components of underground transmission are often not interchangeable as they are for overhead. A complete in-depth study and characterization of the subsurface and electrical environment is necessary in order to get an accurate cost estimate for undergrounding a specific section of transmission. This can make the cost of underground transmission extremely variable when calculated on a per-mile basis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baroclinic Zone Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 That is just fantastic Ryan! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastalWx Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 I definitely do think that part of the problem is that this was unprecedented. We have such heavily forested areas and so much of the grids smashed, that it would be impossible to have enough crews in here to restore power in less than 48 hrs. However, I really hope these guys aren't blaming the mets who are stated that this will be historic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Organizing Low Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 http://psc.wi.gov/th.../electric11.pdf it's not that simple I was under The estimated cost for constructing underground transmission lines ranges from 4 to 14 times more expensive than overhead lines of the same voltage and same distance. A typical new 69 kV overhead single-circuit transmission line costs approximately $285,000 per mile as opposed to $1.5 million per mile for a new 69 kV underground line (without the terminals). A new 138 kV overhead line costs approximately $390,000 per mile as opposed to $2 million per mile for underground (without the terminals). These costs are determined by the local environment, the distances between splices and termination points, and the number of ancillary facilities required. Other issues that make underground transmission lines more costly are right-of-way access, start-up complications, construction limitations in urban areas, conflicts with other utilities, trenching construction issues, crossing natural or manmade barriers, and the potential need for forced cooling facilities. Other transmission facilities in or near the line may also require new or upgraded facilities to balance power issues such fault currents and voltage transients, all adding to the cost. While it may be useful to sometimes compare the general cost differences between overhead and underground construction, the actual costs for underground may be quite different. Underground transmission construction can be very site-specific, especially for higher voltage lines. Components of underground transmission are often not interchangeable as they are for overhead. A complete in-depth study and characterization of the subsurface and electrical environment is necessary in order to get an accurate cost estimate for undergrounding a specific section of transmission. This can make the cost of underground transmission extremely variable when calculated on a per-mile basis. Hydro quebec just said on the news here that they sent crews down to CT last night. look for the french guys smoking cigarettes and talking about the habs.,,,,if you see any around, give em the finger for me thx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowman21 Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 I definitely do think that part of the problem is that this was unprecedented. We have such heavily forested areas and so much of the grids smashed, that it would be impossible to have enough crews in here to restore power in less than 48 hrs. Yeah that's a good point. People would be just as upset if they had to pay for thousands of crews from outside of the state standing around for nothing then having to go back to where ever they came from if the storm busted. I don't think it's free...someone has to pay, and it's the customer in the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastalWx Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 Yeah that's a good point. People would be just as upset if they had to pay for thousands of crews from outside of the state standing around for nothing then having to go back to where ever they came from if the storm busted. I don't think it's free...someone has to pay, and it's the customer in the end. I don't mean necessarily from a cost standpoint like you stated, but this isn't 100% CLP or whoever the utility is. We just has a 1 in 200 yr (or thereabouts) storm. That's part to blame too. Now as far as how they handle restoration and PR...that is another issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
free_man Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 amazing the amount of limbs and trees still hanging on wires in town, yet somehow we have power in this section. Was out working in Chelmsford/Carlisle/Westford/Acton/Littleton and there was some pretty special damage, esp Newtown Rd Acton/Littleton. 'Gonna be a while without power there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginx snewx Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 Hydro quebec just said on the news here that they sent crews down to CT last night. look for the french guys smoking cigarettes and talking about the habs.,,,,if you see any around, give em the finger for me thx Finger, no way, during Bob one case of Molsen Canadian and I had power in minutes. Love me some Canucks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weatherwiz Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 Still without internet and probably at least for 3-4 more days. At the library now. I've taken close to 300 pictures of damage so far and probably another 200-400 tomorrow. Nothing to really do so I've been walking around. Some streets are still completely blocked off due to trees blocking the roads...there is this one street, Four Mile Road where EVERY SINGLE house has piles and piles of limbs and crap lined up in front of their house. The number of trees I've seen completely uprooted are jaw dropping, some of them are absolutely HUGE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastalWx Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 Still without internet and probably at least for 3-4 more days. At the library now. I've taken close to 300 pictures of damage so far and probably another 200-400 tomorrow. Nothing to really do so I've been walking around. Some streets are still completely blocked off due to trees blocking the roads...there is this one street, Four Mile Road where EVERY SINGLE house has piles and piles of limbs and crap lined up in front of their house. The number of trees I've seen completely uprooted are jaw dropping, some of them are absolutely HUGE. I've been wondering what caused them to uproot, but then I thought about the winds kicking up in the second half of the event. That may have been enough to sway trees (especially ones the are not straight) and just brought them right down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weatherwiz Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 I've been wondering what caused them to uproot, but then I thought about the winds kicking up in the second half of the event. That may have been enough to sway trees (especially ones the are not straight) and just brought them right down. I still don't know how the winds were here, I'll have to ask around. The size of some of these trees is just incredible, and how they were snapped, some right at the base...more like something you'd see in a tornado. If we get any wind/rain events sometime in rthe near future we're screwed b/c there are a ton of trees which are leaning heavily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORH_wxman Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 Maybe CLP subscribes to a really crappy met service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastalWx Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 I still don't know how the winds were here, I'll have to ask around. The size of some of these trees is just incredible, and how they were snapped, some right at the base...more like something you'd see in a tornado. If we get any wind/rain events sometime in rthe near future we're screwed b/c there are a ton of trees which are leaning heavily. Well that's a lot of snow clinging to brances, leaves, everything. If a tree is already at an angle...it probably wouldn't take much to bring it down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weatherwiz Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 Maybe CLP subscribes to a really crappy met service. What really sucks for them trying to restore services is there are still so many limbs and trees on power lines they can't do anything about restoring power until those trees/limbs are removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weatherwiz Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 HOLY **** THEY UPPED BDL TO 20.3''??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastalWx Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 What really sucks for them trying to restore services is there are still so many limbs and trees on power lines they can't do anything about restoring power until those trees/limbs are removed. All PR aside, lets face it....this was extremely damaging. I would think people can take a look around their block and realize it may take awhile to get the power back. I'm just strictly talking from a damage standpoint..nevermind the politics and other stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastalWx Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 HOLY **** THEY UPPED BDL TO 20.3''??? Very questionable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginx snewx Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 Maybe CLP subscribes to a really crappy met service. OWS? Mr Martin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weatherwiz Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 All PR aside, lets face it....this was extremely damaging. I would think people can take a look around their block and realize it may take awhile to get the power back. I'm just strictly talking from a damage standpoint..nevermind the politics and other stuff. This was incredibly damaging...can't really go more than a few hundred feet without seeing a tree or limbs or wires down. Entire grid systems are going to have to be rebuilt. I'm not sure what the latest is from CL&P and such as I have no way of getting news but it could really be another 2-3 weeks for some people, even in densly populated areas...it's just a complete diaster out there. Probably my last post of the day...only 2 minutes of time remaining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginx snewx Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 All PR aside, lets face it....this was extremely damaging. I would think people can take a look around their block and realize it may take awhile to get the power back. I'm just strictly talking from a damage standpoint..nevermind the politics and other stuff. Yep pretty intense damage but I have to admit there is a part of me that is saying to the legislators who are now crowing for CLPs head when they were silent during Irene, payback is a mutha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weatherwiz Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 Very questionable. West Hartford had 11.5'' per the PNS...that would be one hell of a gradient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginx snewx Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 This was incredibly damaging...can't really go more than a few hundred feet without seeing a tree or limbs or wires down. Entire grid systems are going to have to be rebuilt. I'm not sure what the latest is from CL&P and such as I have no way of getting news but it could really be another 2-3 weeks for some people, even in densly populated areas...it's just a complete diaster out there. Probably my last post of the day...only 2 minutes of time remaining. They posted today everyone will be back by Sunday. hopefully thats true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginx snewx Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 CT 30 The generator was running outside the home. The exhaust might have entered the house through an eave above where the generator was located. All three occupants of the house were taken to the hospital to be treated for elevated carbon monoxide levels. The husband and son were OK. An 85-year-old Sherman man also died of carbon monoxide poisoning on Tuesday. State Police said a generator was powering Richard Rothchild's Knibloe Hill Road home. The exhaust pipes were properly venting outside the house, but a muffler was broken, allowing the carbon monoxide to fill the home, police said. Gov. Dannel Malloy said on Wednesday that 135 people have been treated for CO poisoning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tamarack Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 I've been wondering what caused them to uproot, but then I thought about the winds kicking up in the second half of the event. That may have been enough to sway trees (especially ones the are not straight) and just brought them right down. Wet unfrozen ground contributed, and many hardwood trees grow at an angle, as they chase the sun rather than merely fight gravity like conifers. Lean plus soft ground plus last weekend's storm = mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tamarack Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 Not surprised about the non-payment, if true. It can take months before they true-up the bill so to speak. Probably has to go through a couple of accounting cycles before funds are disbursed, and it has been less than two months since the last Irene contractors left the state. Don't recall this being reported for 12/2008 in Mass/NH, nor for 1/1998 in NNE. For that latter event, Maine had crews airlifted - bucket trucks and all, in C5As - from places like NC, and somehow they all got paid, and not just with the free lobster feed Governor King hosted at a summertime thank-you party. (Was really weird seeing about 200 bucket trucks, buckets raised, in Augusta's Capitol Park.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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