Facebook vs American Wx

[Scotty Lightning]

American Wx receives unbiased snowfall reports from its members here(because we're all weather geeks!) compared to the average Joe who sticks a yardstick in one spot of his yard near a hill, measures two feet, and then posts it on a Facebook page. Also the IMBYs want to know how the latest storm will affect them...."how much", etc. I do feel that NWS Facebook pages can work if the general public attends a Skywarn session and learns how to properly report during weather events, etc.

[isohume]

American Wx receives unbiased snowfall reports from its members here(because we're all weather geeks!) compared to the average Joe who sticks a yardstick in one spot of his yard near a hill, measures two feet, and then posts it on a Facebook page. Also the IMBYs want to know how the latest storm will affect them...."how much", etc. I do feel that NWS Facebook pages can work if the general public attends a Skywarn session and learns how to properly report during weather events, etc.

Hopefully more folks (public) take the online Skywarn courses once they become available. That's the goal anyway.

[Scotty Lightning]

Hopefully more folks (public) take the online Skywarn courses once they become available. That's the goal anyway.

I hope so-they are a great asset as it gets the public involved and aware!

[isohume]

I hope so-they are a great asset as it gets the public involved and aware!

Well to some extent. We have many spotters who forget they are spotters, never call, and wonder why we are calling them for storm reports. If we can certify folks online that really want to be spotters, perhaps we can get good feedback on a wider range. The fans of our FB page will be the most likely to take the courses and that's a good thing, since they are into weather.

[Scotty Lightning]

Well to some extent. We have many spotters who forget they are spotters, never call, and wonder why we are calling them for storm reports. If we can certify folks online that really want to be spotters, perhaps we can get good feedback on a wider range. The fans of our FB page will be the most likely to take the courses and that's a good thing, since they are into weather.

I have two issues with being a Skywarn spotter myself-first off, I live near the ocean and the damn marine layer always kills convection. I think I've called twice within the last four years with a hail report. The other issue is that now I live during the week in another WFO....how would I call to report something if my Skywarn membership is just for the Mt. Holly WFO and not Upton?

[isohume]

I have two issues with being a Skywarn spotter myself-first off, I live near the ocean and the damn marine layer always kills convection. I think I've called twice within the last four years with a hail report. The other issue is that now I live during the week in another WFO....how would I call to report something if my Skywarn membership is just for the Mt. Holly WFO and not Upton?

You can relay your info through the Mt Holly office...they will send it onto Upton. We do this a few times a year for spotters.

[Scotty Lightning]

You can relay your info through the Mt Holly office...they will send it onto Upton. We do this a few times a year for spotters.

Well, I could just cut out the middle man and do it myself. I wouldn't mind.

I just don't get why Skywarn isn't all the same on a national level. For Mt. Holly you go to the basic and then advance classes.....but for Upton apparently during the class you have to take a test(and pass it) in order to get certified.

[isohume]

Well, I could just cut out the middle man and do it myself. I wouldn't mind.

The reason they do it that way is they don't want all the ring-through numbers given out to all spotters. Believe it or not, these numbers get leaked to non-spotters and we get calls from uncertified folks asking a myriad of time wasting questions or giving insignificant reports.

[MGorse]

I have two issues with being a Skywarn spotter myself-first off, I live near the ocean and the damn marine layer always kills convection. I think I've called twice within the last four years with a hail report. The other issue is that now I live during the week in another WFO....how would I call to report something if my Skywarn membership is just for the Mt. Holly WFO and not Upton?

Being a Skywarn spotter is not just for convective reports. If you call my office to relay a report (since you are a spotter registered in our forecast area) and tell us where you are and the info, we will gladly relay that to the correct office (i.e. Upton). We have done this several times over the years for Sterling, State College and Binghamton.

[Thunder Road]

Being a Skywarn spotter is not just for convective reports. If you call my office to relay a report (since you are a spotter registered in our forecast area) and tell us where you are and the info, we will gladly relay that to the correct office (i.e. Upton). We have done this several times over the years for Sterling, State College and Binghamton.

What about LOT? I think they do a Spotter class in the Spring at Valpo, but until then?

(I might actually get a snow board and measure out here, Tony said that because of our program with MIT we need to do almost continuous balloon launches during snowstorms and no one ends up even measuring.)

[Ellinwood]

What about LOT? I think they do a Spotter class in the Spring at Valpo, but until then?

(I might actually get a snow board and measure out here, Tony said that because of our program with MIT we need to do almost continuous balloon launches during snowstorms and no one ends up even measuring.)

You could always just send an e-mail to the reports contact... I do that on occasion. Just include a specific location, time of event/measurement, pics, and sometimes it helps to include how you made the measurement and whatever credentials you might have (for example, I don't have a spotter ID but I always include the fact that I'm a meteorologist in my reports).

[MGorse]

What about LOT? I think they do a Spotter class in the Spring at Valpo, but until then?

(I might actually get a snow board and measure out here, Tony said that because of our program with MIT we need to do almost continuous balloon launches during snowstorms and no one ends up even measuring.)

Probably best to submit a report through an online process (usually a link on the offices homepage that gets sent via email). We relay reports to other offices that are adjacent to ours.

[Scotty Lightning]

Being a Skywarn spotter is not just for convective reports. If you call my office to relay a report (since you are a spotter registered in our forecast area) and tell us where you are and the info, we will gladly relay that to the correct office (i.e. Upton). We have done this several times over the years for Sterling, State College and Binghamton.

I know that Mike-I did call in snow amounts in the past(and since you know I am a registered spotter at Mt. Holly, then what's my spotter number, huh? ). If you want this Winter I will relay snowfall totals from Hoboken to you so you can relay them to Upton.

[MGorse]

I know that Mike-I did call in snow amounts in the past(and since you know I am a registered spotter at Mt. Holly, then what's my spotter number, huh? ). If you want this Winter I will relay snowfall totals from Hoboken to you so you can relay them to Upton.

Given your original post, I was not completely sure. Others read on here as well, and I wanted to be sure they knew that Skywarn is not just for convective reports.

[isohume]

Given your original post, I was not completely sure. Others read on here as well, and I wanted to be sure they knew that Skywarn is not just for convective reports.

Yes, that'd be awesome if even 5% of our spotters gave current and updated sn/fzra/ip reports. We should push for it more in the next spotter newsletter.

[BillB]

This is a great thread with excellent questions/points.

Anyways I think it's certainly a fantastic idea to begin including and combining as many social networks as possible as this will certainly increase the chances of gathering as many reports as possible. Sure it also increases the chances of getting fake reports or inaccurate reports but you hope this is as limited as possible. I would still believe and probably always will for any met looking for reports this is likely the best place to go and likely always will be.

The new social media can be a source to look at, but with a very limited trust factor unless and until it is confirmed by a known source. The ideal for us is to get fast and accurate information. But one does not imply the other. Fast and inaccurate is all too frequent and does no one any good, as it leads to a false alarm warning and a resulting lower confidence in future warnings.

Hopefully more folks (public) take the online Skywarn courses once they become available. That's the goal anyway.

Our office has reviewed the (online) COMET Skywarn class and concluded it is inadequate for spotters from our forecast area. We are referring all people who complete that course to our live classes in the Spring.

[isohume]

Our office has reviewed the (online) COMET Skywarn class and concluded it is inadequate for spotters from our forecast area. We are referring all people who complete that course to our live classes in the Spring.

Ugh...so much for hope and change. It'll be interesting to see how our outreach team scores it.

[MGorse]

Our office has reviewed the (online) COMET Skywarn class and concluded it is inadequate for spotters from our forecast area. We are referring all people who complete that course to our live classes in the Spring.

I have not seen this yet. Is it that bad?

[BillB]

I have not seen this yet. Is it that bad?

Perhaps I'm biased. Been doing Skywarn at various offices since the late '80s, back in the days of slides and overhead projectors and reel-to-reel movies. But I also like the current age of Powerpoint and embedded video & animations.

That having been said, the Comet version struck me as "Spotter-Lite", or "A Day in the Life of a Spotter". Experiential rather than factual. I suppose this works for some people. It may work for some offices, especially those that don't have much of a spotter program, or interested local trainers, or a population density. It doesn't work for me, and it doesn't work for Glenn (WCM).

Between the two modules currently available there is one example of flooding, a Fort Collins-like flash flood from distant convection. The thunderstorm and tornado cases are pure Plains. There are no modules or material for spotting during areal flooding, or winter weather spotting.

So I don't like the approach and lack of material. And I don't think one-size-fits-all training is a good idea anyway. When an existing spotter moves here from elsewhere in the nation, we will give them a local spotter number. But the emphasis we give to them to attend a live class here increases with the distance they have moved to get here. Portland OR is different from Norman, which is different from Blacksburg, which is different from Philly and Boston. The spotter training programs should be adjusted to match the terrain and the people.

Is it bad? Again, it may work for some people/offices. Check it out for yourself and make the judgement. My judgement is that it is bad for Southern New England.

[MGorse]

Perhaps I'm biased. Been doing Skywarn at various offices since the late '80s, back in the days of slides and overhead projectors and reel-to-reel movies. But I also like the current age of Powerpoint and embedded video & animations.

That having been said, the Comet version struck me as "Spotter-Lite", or "A Day in the Life of a Spotter". Experiential rather than factual. I suppose this works for some people. It may work for some offices, especially those that don't have much of a spotter program, or interested local trainers, or a population density. It doesn't work for me, and it doesn't work for Glenn (WCM).

Between the two modules currently available there is one example of flooding, a Fort Collins-like flash flood from distant convection. The thunderstorm and tornado cases are pure Plains. There are no modules or material for spotting during areal flooding, or winter weather spotting.

So I don't like the approach and lack of material. And I don't think one-size-fits-all training is a good idea anyway. When an existing spotter moves here from elsewhere in the nation, we will give them a local spotter number. But the emphasis we give to them to attend a live class here increases with the distance they have moved to get here. Portland OR is different from Norman, which is different from Blacksburg, which is different from Philly and Boston. The spotter training programs should be adjusted to match the terrain and the people.

Is it bad? Again, it may work for some people/offices. Check it out for yourself and make the judgement. My judgement is that it is bad for Southern New England.

Thanks for the additional comments on this. I will have to check it out. I used to help out with our spotter training but then took on other tasks in the office. But, I definitely agree especially with the bolded part.

[weatherwiz]

The new social media can be a source to look at, but with a very limited trust factor unless and until it is confirmed by a known source. The ideal for us is to get fast and accurate information. But one does not imply the other. Fast and inaccurate is all too frequent and does no one any good, as it leads to a false alarm warning and a resulting lower confidence in future warnings.

I agree, there really can't be too much of a trust factor with the social media. People tend to over-exaggerate what is going on and when you're getting many reports like this it can make life for the forecasters incredibly difficult. When I'm on facebook and looking for status updates from friends, I usually do this more with convection than snowfall reports but if I see a friend post something that sounds noteworthy I'll try to gather as much information as possible and if there is something like hail or flooding involved I try to get pictures. There was a case earlier this summer where two friends of mine were driving near the Waterbury, CT area I believe it was and one of them made a post on facebook that there was massive street flooding, I was able to get more info out of this and saw a pic and it wasn't even anything extreme, not even a few inches of water on the road. Not only is the trust factor low with many social media outlets but the response time can be rather slow and that doesn't help out forecasters much either, especially when contemplating warnings and such.

The one great thing for BOX at least is the HAM radio team is quite strong and there is major support there which also includes a great deal of trustworthy people and there is an active contingent of skywarn spotters so there is a great mix involved.

[weatherwiz]

Regarding the online classes for skywarn spotters.

I know BOX just went with classes online but only for current spotters who want to register (BillB just touched up on this a little) but for any mets in the NWS involved in this, how much do you value these online classes? Do you think they are a great training tool?

Personally, I feel as if this could possibly be a little more harm than good? At least in live skywarn sessions people attending the classes can ask questions directly and if there is something needed to be clarified you have experienced people there (usually mets) who can answer any questions and help with any confusion. Online does have some great qualities though, each individual can take their time to thoroughly read through all of the information at a pace that is comfortable to them and sometimes reading the information instead of just hearing it can be better for some people. On the other hand, at least in live sessions further detail can be gone into.

I have a few other questions as well...

Is there really alot of work going into these online classes...work as in ways of improving the tests and the slideshow people have to go through?

Something I was thinking of was this...

For anyone who is qualified to take the online test (which at BOX I believe you must have a spotter ID already from attending previous class or classes) during say the late winter or early spring an email is sent out to those who would qualify for the test...if they pass this test then great, however, if they fail they must attend a live session near their location during the summer or early fall.

[famartin]

I have two issues with being a Skywarn spotter myself-first off, I live near the ocean and the damn marine layer always kills convection. I think I've called twice within the last four years with a hail report. The other issue is that now I live during the week in another WFO....how would I call to report something if my Skywarn membership is just for the Mt. Holly WFO and not Upton?

I use the Skywarn line at Mt. Holly (still ) for snowfall reports and any severe weather damage. Obviously the former is much more likely than the latter, as the chance of getting my parents to measure snow right outside the house is much higher than getting them to go around looking for severe damage If its a big rain event I'll call in their rain report too, but I've only done that once I think (the big rain in the second week of this past August).

As far as being in another WFO's area, when I moved to State College, Joe Miketta (WCM at Mt. Holly) talked to the guys at CTP and they sent me a CTP-area Skywarn card with a new spotter ID and their number, which I used while I lived there (again, mainly for snow ).

[famartin]

Regarding the main topic of this thread... for our office, since we don't really have a forum like AmWx, Facebook is more valuable. But, of course, its probably the difference of receiving one report versus none considering our CWA's population is smaller than that of most small-medium sized cities

I've "liked" Upton, Wakefield and State College back in ER. Upton does a good job soliciting FB users for reports, so they seem to get a decent response. Of course, having almost 20 million people in their CWA helps increase the odds of getting feedback too I would imagine that after Mt. Holly's page has gotten a decent number of "likes", you'll get a decent response whenever you solicit for reports. That is the key, I think... the office will need to ask for reports.

[DaculaWeather]

I use multiple ways to get information out to people, all of which is automated. I use my own EMWIN server and push watches and warnings to email, Facebook, and Twitter. I much prefer Twitter when things get busy though.

I don't think using those platforms to RECEIVE information from the public is the best thing though, for the reasons that have already been mentioned.

What could be created here on this forum is an automated process where AMWx forum members could post an observation and have those obs get passed to the appropriate NWS office. The database this forum runs from could be modified to add a few new fields of data, and then create a small script to email the obs to the office that person is closest to. You could then get fairly reliable data from people that actually care about accuracy. The admins could even create a screen where you could see the reports in a list format, maybe even do little sorting by date or location.

Just a thought...

[isohume]

I use multiple ways to get information out to people, all of which is automated. I use my own EMWIN server and push watches and warnings to email, Facebook, and Twitter. I much prefer Twitter when things get busy though.

I don't think using those platforms to RECEIVE information from the public is the best thing though, for the reasons that have already been mentioned.

What could be created here on this forum is an automated process where AMWx forum members could post an observation and have those obs get passed to the appropriate NWS office. The database this forum runs from could be modified to add a few new fields of data, and then create a small script to email the obs to the office that person is closest to. You could then get fairly reliable data from people that actually care about accuracy. The admins could even create a screen where you could see the reports in a list format, maybe even do little sorting by date or location.

Just a thought...

That's a great idea! I'm not sure if they still have the obs reporting forum here...but when it was used, it was a good source for us to get snowfall amounts. Problem was...it was rarely used.

[famartin]

That's a great idea! I'm not sure if they still have the obs reporting forum here...but when it was used, it was a good source for us to get snowfall amounts. Problem was...it was rarely used.

Exactly. People want to chat, discuss their observations, share with others in a meaningful way. Having people submit totals into a form and then watch them disappear into cyberspace isn't going to encourage people to share. That's why the obs threads here on AmWx are so valuable. I don't think they can be duplicated on the NWS FB pages, unfortunately.

[isohume]

Exactly. People want to chat, discuss their observations, share with others in a meaningful way. Having people submit totals into a form and then watch them disappear into cyberspace isn't going to encourage people to share. That's why the obs threads here on AmWx are so valuable. I don't think they can be duplicated on the NWS FB pages, unfortunately.

No and I don't think we want to really solicit obs from the general public anyway. There could be too much time spent trying to QC the reports.

[DaculaWeather]

what I'm talking about would be database driven. Here's an example of a script I use that pulls storm reports from the SPC and displays them in a color coded list format for all to see. Here, the list could be displayed by region or a total summary.

http://www.daculaweather.com/spc_storm_reports.php?mo=07&dt=05&yr=11&submit=Submit

Just a thought...

[famartin]

No and I don't think we want to really solicit obs from the general public anyway. There could be too much time spent trying to QC the reports.

I would suggest asking Upton about that. They seem to do it a lot (soliciting reports from the public via FB, that is). It would be interesting to know how reliable their fans are, how much QC they need to do, etc.