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October 29/30 Snowstorm Disco - III


Baroclinic Zone

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GEFS has led the way for NCEP guidance westward. The 18z GEFS...is it an indication that the 0z NCEP guidance is going warmer/west? Maybe.

Euro has held fast. But climatology has to put up its hand at some point.

18z gefs must have some really warn and west models.I think back this way we are ok with mid level warmth the issue is how much previp we waste with a warm boundary layer at first and where best mesoscale banding sets up.

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I love how everyone thinks the GFS is right and every other model including the Euro is wrong. LOL. Take the Euro and lock it folks. Think colder solutions . GFS vs the world. Dance with the devil if you want

Yea, I dont know why people are caving to the GFS, as if its a done deal... The Euro has been pretty steady on this storm for quite some time, and with corroboration from the NAM, I dont see any reason other than guesses to expect the GFS has made what will prove to be the right call.. Its a hair early for that, i would say!

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I'm in the jackpot zone with you..I'm just talking about the eastern folks

Kev, are the Euro/GFS really all that different when resolution differences are muted? IE, the differences can be accounted for by the Euro's superior resolution. That said, I don't like that the GEFS is wandering west still.

18z gefs must have some really warn and west models.I think back this way we are ok with mid level warmth the issue is how much previp we waste with a warm boundary layer at first and where best mesoscale banding sets up.

Yep...a couple have to be out by buffalo :)

Not really worried either way until the 0z. I think this is the model run that will determine to what extent history is made.

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I love how everyone thinks the GFS is right and every other model including the Euro is wrong. LOL. Take the Euro and lock it folks. Think colder solutions . GFS vs the world. Dance with the devil if you want

Yeah I'd like to agree.

We saw these battles in several SECS 2010-2011, and ultimately there were occasions when the GFS proved Euro is not always king within 48 hrs (yes Euro did match the GEFS several days ago), and EE rule is not always a lock within 48 hours . . . .

Here's to hoping 0Z suite swings back colder to seal history for central / eastern SNE !!

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GFS ens are probably having a hard time seeing the hole that is being ripped in the atmosphere SE of New England...so they want to try and ride the sfc low up the trough further more without seeing the height falls to the east.

The resolution just isn't there on the GFS like it is on the Euro and NAM. Folks need to understand these things

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GFS ens are probably having a hard time seeing the hole that is being ripped in the atmosphere SE of New England...so they want to try and ride the sfc low up the trough further more without seeing the height falls to the east.

And one would think that in this dynamic a situation even the Euro may be underplaying that and as a result...could still see a colder nudge.

But who knows?

Euro looks sick.

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And one would think that in this dynamic a situation even the Euro may be underplaying that and as a result...could still see a colder nudge.

But who knows?

Euro looks sick.

Yeah I think the thermal gradient will be obscenely packed in the SE...like Tip mentioned earlier. The lower res models won't handle that quite as well.

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Yeah I think the thermal gradient will be obscenely packed in the SE...like Tip mentioned earlier. The lower res models won't handle that quite as well.

Wouldn't that argue for a stronger system? Tight baroclinic zone right on the coastline between the water and just inland... And don't stronger, explosive lows have a better shot at going a bit west than east?

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The thing is..I do think you get good snow up there..even with the Euro track. The eastern folks are worried simply because of the GFS adding confusion to an otherwise unified front of models.

It's like an Allied front against one rebel country

Haha I'm just messing around. We all hear and see what we want to see. Without even seeing the 00z runs I bet us NNE folks will think it looks a bit west and SE MA folks will argue east. Its all in the eye of the beholder.

I just know that when a low is modeled to go up the coastal plain, everyone says no, it will ride the thermal gradient right on the coast and there's no way it comes inland. I don't know why now it wouldn't also ride that thermal boundary which will literally be right on the coastline, not out near the Benchmark.

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Yeah I think the thermal gradient will be obscenely packed in the SE...like Tip mentioned earlier. The lower res models won't handle that quite as well.

Phil may need to get his oxygen mask with this..lol. The 1.5PVU surface to 600mb. Hard to tell, but you can see the dip in red.

Those ensembles seem awfully far west for those reasons you/we stated earlier.

post-33-0-40327400-1319844392.jpg

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Wouldn't that argue for a stronger system? Tight baroclinic zone right on the coastline between the water and just inland... And don't stronger, explosive lows have a better shot at going a bit west than east?

Yes it would argue for a stronger system, but it wouldn't mean the 0C line gets shoved inland like some of those runs show...it will be really tightly packed thermal gradient. On the GEFS it is more diffuse.

A stronger system may wobble west but it will also be more compact as everything gets sucked toward the center of the bombing low. We sort of saw this in Jan 12, 2011 system as even though the storm tracked over the Cape Cod canal, it kept BOS all snow...everything was so compact with the bombing nature of the storm...it will probably start off with the larger precip shield but then it could actually shrink in coverage but increase in intensity as the storm nukes out...we'll just have to wait and see what the hi res 00z run show...but that is typically what you see.

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Yes it would argue for a stronger system, but it wouldn't mean the 0C line gets shoved inland like some of those runs show...it will be really tightly packed thermal gradient. On the GEFS it is more diffuse.

A stronger system may wobble west but it will also be more compact as everything gets sucked toward the center of the bombing low. We sort of saw this in Jan 12, 2011 system as even though the storm tracked over the Cape Cod canal, it kept BOS all snow...everything was so compact with the bombing nature of the storm...it will probably start off with the larger precip shield but then it could actually shrink in coverage but increase in intensity as the storm nukes out...we'll just have to wait and see what the hi res 00z run show...but that is typically what you see.

Yeah that makes sense... I've just been thinking more in terms of track only and not so much the 0C line (which there's no way it makes it to ORH in that set-up). Figure out the track and you can sort of figure out the other details without even looking at the maps.

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Wouldn't that argue for a stronger system? Tight baroclinic zone right on the coastline between the water and just inland... And don't stronger, explosive lows have a better shot at going a bit west than east?

storms dont like to cut over snowpack, they'll sense the water

oh wait :blink:

:lol:

for the record i'm leaning towards the euro/NAM blend.

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