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potential for a few (million) mangled flakes part 2


Alpha5

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NYC up to 47 at 1PM, still think we could eek out a sub-50 high... certainly not hitting the forecast 53, though.

Although it is interesting so see how low we can keep the daytime high, the overnight low is the big question. Especially since moderation will be limited tomorrow.

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i guess i phrased it wrong, your getting 2-3 inches no matter what, which is def more than us here, so we are in the position of taking what we can get, you should be sleeping like a baby tonight

Not so fast there. If the gfs is correct and 500 closes off over NYC at 39 hrs...you will get doused in a persistent band of snow for the few hours after that period..and probably do better than the marginal coastal plain just to the west of NYC

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Looking at extreme NW New Jersey, I am wondering if someone can reach twenty inches there?

Clearly yes. 1500ft should have no trouble accumulating throughout - plenty cold aloft and near or slightly below freezing at surface. If you assume 10:1 ratio it's basically a matter of getting enough QPF - in your case 2" liquid. If the thermal profiles are close to being correct, a 10:1 ratio would be too conservative, especially for the latter part of the storm. I think 20" might be just out of reach, but 12-16 on the hilltops seems very possible. Late October 2008, up in Orange/Sullivan and the Catskills is an example of what's possible.

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Some very severe over reactions in this thread initially.

The posts by eduggs and jm are spot on. This is not going to be all snow. It's October. However, the track is absolutely classic. We have some warm boundary layer temps to fight off initially but you can't deny what's going on here.

Although the GFS is warmer, it's still showing the rapidly deepening low pressure offshore and very impressive frontogenic forcing and the potential for instability in banding and very impressive dynamic cooling.

The westward tilt with height and the tuck northwest as the low is kicked by the h5 pva is classic. It's going to be a rain/snow transition event, but once it flips..it's going to feel like mid-winter.

lets be realistic...whether it snows or not at your location (at this point of the season) doesnt really matter. However, I would think this type of storm/track bodes very nicely for the upcoming winter season.

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Some of the guys here at COD are working on smaller sector views for critical thickness...here is a look at the northeast sector off the 12z NAM.

RED: 1000-700mb = 2840mCYAN: 850-700mb = 1540mYELLOW: 1000-850mb = 1300mPURPLE: 700-500mb = 2560mPURPLE: 700-500mb = 2560mGREEN: 850-500mb = 4100mWHITE: 1000-500mb = 5400mBLUE: 850mb 0°C Isotherm

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The bottom line is, if you could draw up a late October scenario that would result in a mostly snow event, and lots of it for at least some people for this area, you would be hard pressed to do better than whats on the table here. My forecast per the Winter Storm Watch is for 6-10". If I get 2" I will be thrilled beyond belief, its October, not January.

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In the most general sense, when I see that sharp hook in the contour lines on the 500mb heights chart on the GGEM (near SE Pa hour 36), I know an intense storm is on the way.

Of course thermodynamically it reflects a pocket of high vorticity and a positioning of jets that allow an efficient transfer of air from a developing low pressure center to a high pressure center. But without understanding the underlying dynamics, I can always rely on the look and feel of the graphics to tell much of the story.

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Some of the guys here at COD are working on smaller sector views for critical thickness...here is a look at the northeast sector off the 12z NAM.

RED: 1000-700mb = 2840mCYAN: 850-700mb = 1540mYELLOW: 1000-850mb = 1300mPURPLE: 700-500mb = 2560mPURPLE: 700-500mb = 2560mGREEN: 850-500mb = 4100mWHITE: 1000-500mb = 5400mBLUE: 850mb 0°C Isotherm

That is an awesome map. Incredibly useful, too. Wow.

Thanks a ton!

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