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And we're off - first threat for a few mangled flakes


earthlight

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Not to clog up the board with non storm related questions but do you take anything for the allergies? Anything over the counter or pills don't work at all for me. It has to be nasonex or some other spray.

I have never had allergies like this in the fall,sneezing every single day.THe wet AUG/SEPT made a lot of stuff grow again and release pollen and cause a lot of mold on trees and other plants.I hope temps do drop below freezing and end this misery.

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The deform zone on this run of the euro would be 1-3 inch an hour snow fall rates which would easily accumulate all the way to the coast save maybe the blacktop in times quare.

That is an impressive bombogenesis and ccb which forms. Literally someone goes from low 40's and rain maybe mangled flake mix to 34 and S+ and sticking in an hours time.

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And also, now seeing the 12z gefs pop a few coastals is very encouraging and fits the same pattern we saw last year with one model latched onto a solution, whether it was euro or gfs, be on its own for a while and then have the ensembles pick up up under 100 hours.

Nothing like a davis straight block to make things interesting around here.

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Seeing some GFS ensembles now showing the storm is positive.

18z GFS should be a pretty interesting run.

Ehh the gfs will come around, the H5 argues in favor of that, but I don't expect much till earliest 12z tomorrow. Maybe some steps in the right direction though, I am cool with that.

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And also, now seeing the 12z gefs pop a few coastals is very encouraging and fits the same pattern we saw last year with one model latched onto a solution, whether it was euro or gfs, be on its own for a while and then have the ensembles pick up up under 100 hours.

Nothing like a davis straight block to make things interesting around here.

Amen bro. The pattern is nice to look at, can only hope the opportunity arises several times again throughout the winter.

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Thats a little bold.You need some serious dynamics for thundersnow, probably a crazy deform band too.I dont see that happening here

THats the only way I see any snow that does fall to stick near the coast.THere was thundersnow in New Brunswick during the October 08 storm.Oct 1979 had thundersnow and even the NOV 11 1987 storm had it as well although we missed out on what DC and BOS had.You need intense snow rates to have it stick here this time of year.

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Thats a little bold.

You need some serious dynamics for thundersnow, probably a crazy deform band too.

I dont see that happening here

Its happened before, I believe Veterans day 87.

Is it likely? No, but getting the euro to spit out .75 to 1 inch 6 hour qpf rates just south of LI as the low starts to move NE from atlantic city should put the thought into someone's mind away from the coast.

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Its happened before, I believe Veterans day 87.Is it likely? No, but getting the euro to spit out .75 to 1 inch 6 hour qpf rates just south of LI as the low starts to move NE from atlantic city should put the thought into someone's mind away from the coast.

Exactly.I doubt anything would accumulate here in Queens county but where you are,thats a different story.YOu could definetly see accumulationg snow.

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Thats a little bold.

You need some serious dynamics for thundersnow, probably a crazy deform band too.

I dont see that happening here

I don't know if that's really all that bold. You need some serious dynamics for accumulating snow in NYC in October. So, basically he said that IF NYC gets accumulating snow in October, it would probably come with thundersnow. That's really not so unrealistic.

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Check out the 500mb ensemble mean height anomaly from the 12z gfs. This maps screams noreaster. Other than wanting a little more ridging out west, this map has a deep 500 negative anomaly over the ohio valley, a deep negative anomaly around 50/50 (NF Low), and a strong positivie anomology in the davis straights (west based block). It's basically all there for the taking. Even the PNA ridge outwest is ok given the wavelengths and phasing.

f96.gif

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12Z UPDATE... WITH ERN CONUS/WRN ATLC EVOLUTION EARLY-MID

PERIOD... THE UKMET HAS ADJUSTED SOMEWHAT EWD AND THE GFS/CMC HAVE

STAYED IN THE ERN HALF OF THE SPREAD. HOWEVER THE ECMWF REMAINS

THE CLOSEST TO THE COAST WITH THE SFC LOW ALBEIT WITH FASTER

TIMING. WITH THE CNTRL CONUS TROF BY SUN-MON... THE UKMET OFFERS

DECENT AGREEMENT WITH THE 00Z ECMWF MEAN. THE ECMWF SEPARATES ITS

SRN STREAM FARTHER EWD THAN THE PAST 1-2 RUNS... WHICH SEEMS

REASONABLE... BUT IT STILL SHOWS MORE SEPARATION THAN OTHER SOLNS.

THE GFS/GEFS MEAN/CMC REMAIN FLATTER AND MORE PROGRESSIVE. WITH

THE TROF ENTERING WRN NOAM BY MON OR TUE... THE ECMWF/CMC ARE THE

SHARPEST/MOST AMPLIFIED WITH THE CMC STILL A SLOW EXTREME.

FOR THE UPDATED PRELIMS A GENERAL PREFERENCE TOWARD SOMEWHAT

SLOWER PROGRESSION THAN THE GFS/GEFS CLUSTER WITH THE LEADING TWO

SYSTEMS DURING THE PERIOD FAVORED AN INITIAL BLEND OF THE 00Z

ECMWF/ECMWF MEAN... 70 PCT TOWARD THE OPERATIONAL RUN DAYS 3-5

FRI-SUN AND THEN 70 PCT TOWARD THE MEAN BY DAYS 6-7 MON-TUE AS

CONFIDENCE IN OPERATIONAL DETAILS DECLINES. MODEST EWD DEPARTURE

OF THE 12Z UKMET FROM THE ECMWF WITH THE WRN ATLC SYSTEM LOWERS

CONFIDENCE IN THE ECMWF SCENARIO SLIGHTLY BUT GUIDANCE HAS BEEN

SUFFICIENTLY VOLATILE OVER THE PAST COUPLE DAYS TO MAINTAIN

CONTINUITY FOR THE FINAL FCST OF THIS FEATURE. FINAL ISSUANCE

ALSO REFLECTS UPDATED PRELIM CONTINUITY WITH THE TROF REACHING THE

CNTRL CONUS BY SUN-MON AND THE SYSTEM HEADING INTO THE WEST EARLY

NEXT WEEK AS THE ADDITION OF 12Z GUIDANCE DOES NOT PROVIDE ANY NEW

CONSENSUS TRENDS.

MODEL SPREAD LEAVES CONSIDERABLE UNCERTAINTY WITH RESPECT TO

POTENTIAL ERN CONUS IMPACT FROM WRN ATLC LOW PRESSURE DURING THE

WEEKEND. BASED ON CURRENT PREFS THAT ARE IN THE WRN HALF OF THE

SPREAD... PORTIONS OF THE INTERIOR NORTHEAST COULD SEE SOME SNOW

WITH RAIN ELSEWHERE OVER THE EAST. AS THIS SYSTEM PASSES BY

EXPECT A COUPLE OF UNSEASONABLY CHILLY DAYS WITH HIGHS UP TO 10-20

F BELOW NORMAL. MORNING LOWS SHOULD NOT BE AS EXTREME BUT MAY

STILL BE COLD ENOUGH FOR THE FIRST FROST OR FREEZE OF THE SEASON

AT SOME LOCATIONS. EXPECT THE PAC NW TO SEE TWO FRONTAL

PASSAGES... ONE FRI AND ANOTHER AROUND SUN-MON. EACH FRONT SHOULD

BRING A BRIEF PERIOD OF LGT-MDT PCPN WITH ONLY MODEST AMTS OF MSTR

LEFT AS THEY DEPART FROM THE NORTHWEST. THIS PROGRESSION WILL

LEAD TO VARIABLE TEMPS OVER THE WEST/PLAINS... WITH A TENDENCY

TOWARD ABOVE NORMAL READINGS OVER THE SOUTHWEST. RNFL COVERAGE

FROM THE SRN PLAINS INTO THE EAST EARLY NEXT WEEK WILL BE HIGHLY

SENSITIVE TO EXACT ORIENTATION OF FLOW ALOFT. CURRENT PREFS THAT

LEAN MORE TOWARD THE 00Z ECMWF MEAN WOULD LEAD TO MORE MSTR OVER

THAT AREA THAN FCST BY THE GFS/GEFS MEAN RUNS.

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Euro has temps plummeting into the upper 20's, as the storm deepens and pulls away.

Euro says freeze. Recent climatology says 35F would be an accomplishment.

My guess is snow is confined roughly north of an extension of the MA/CT border, esp the higher elevations, and the City fails to drop below the mid-30s. I think Sussex, Danbury, Newburgh, and Poughkeepsie can hit 32F, and maybe Allentown and White Plains, but none of the NYC reporting stations. In recent years it's actually kind of rare until mid November or so.

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Agreed. The Euro has a couple of things occuing which all play a major role. We both discussed them...the ridge is stronger and farther west, the northern stream digs very far south, and the southern stream phase occurs at the right time. All of these events, while possible, arent likely.

Let's also throw in there that the event occurs at 00-12z when things are coolest. What a perfect run, huh? Jesus.

Yeah, the Euro certainly paints the dream scenario at this point.

Although there is a bit of a pos height anomaly up north, the NAO is positive, and the blocking isn't enough (IMO) to back the upper flow as much as the Euro indicates. The result should be more progressive, probably not as weak as the GFS, but close to it.

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Yeah, the Euro certainly paints the dream scenario at this point.

Although there is a bit of a pos height anomaly up north, the NAO is positive, and the blocking isn't enough (IMO) to back the upper flow as much as the Euro indicates. The result should be more progressive, probably not as weak as the GFS, but close to it.

That is davis strait block my friend, and its being reinforced (chicken/egg?) by the 50/50 low. I don't care what the NAO indecies might say right now, i will take that 7 days a week and twice on Sunday. Thnk of all the storms in years past where we would have died to have that, regardlesss that it isn't the strongest block ever.

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Hearing from the SNE thread that the euro ensembles are well east of the op. By more then 100 miles.

well, its probably the smoothed mean they are referring to, and seeing the spaghetti's last year for a time and then looking at the mean was like night and day. It is what it is.

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That is davis strait block my friend, and its being reinforced (chicken/egg?) by the 50/50 low. I don't care what the NAO indecies might say right now, i will take that 7 days a week and twice on Sunday. Thnk of all the storms in years past where we would have died to have that, regardlesss that it isn't the strongest block ever.

still would think its very unlikely that the small area of positive height anamolies would be enough to get a storm tuck in that close to the coast. Trough needs to be very sharp which looks unlikely.

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they are east, but stronger than the 0z. It will usually be east at this point.

it's an ensemble. Even with their high resolution, they still act like ensembles.

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying this is a lock or that anyone will verify with accumulating snowfall, but if you gave me 10 somewhat realistic patterns for the end of october and told me to pick my top 5, this pattern would be one of them and towards the top.

I like most people, just want to see some snow flakes!

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