Logan11 Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 It's been above normal, but not shocking if you have been watching NE wx for 40 years or so..... I can recall plenty of years where we just couldn't get any sustained chilly wx until around Thanksgiving. Then it turned and we had a cold and snowy winter. So I really am not worrying much about it and I hope Iberia is under a late season Azores ridge in early November. Then it can get cold.... Oh and I fly into JFK on the evening of the 16th. ...would be nice timing. Lol, it could not be further from the truth, you see things only in extremes and in white, the fact is there is nothing average about this autumn, its been an all out torch, and while we get back to maybe a few above normal this weekend, next week will be above. Later in the week, a possible below normal couple of days before another potential torch. The snow will come, eventually. I was actually thinking about ski operations in the north country, I know a couple resorts like to open later in October, obviously thats not happening, but if this pattern persists it will be interesting to see how late things get going, as you know a Sustained period of cold is needed, not sure when that will happen. It stinks because now its about economics, hopefully November will cool down quickly up north, I still like the 16th for a pattern change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan11 Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 We had the two more good snowstorms in later Feb and early March here..... 13" on 2/25 and 12" on 3/6-7.... So really a nice full winter season and 103" total. That was our peak depth. After that...it was a slow death in snow pack. Here is March 4th. Compare that to the pic I had at 2/2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORH_wxman Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 Bob had almost no snow on 3/4 but this is at my folks house in Marshfield. That place seems to hold snow there off the water pretty well...more than you'd think for SE MA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginx snewx Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 Max depth and death Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastalWx Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 That place seems to hold snow there off the water pretty well...more than you'd think for SE MA. I don't know...it's also very forested so that helps, but even Bob said he didn't have anything like that on 3/4. I know there was an extremely sharp gradient just to the south. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastalWx Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 I don't know...it's also very forested so that helps, but even Bob said he didn't have anything like that on 3/4. I know there was an extremely sharp gradient just to the south. It's also on the nw corner of town which helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powderfreak Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 We had the two more good snowstorms in later Feb and early March here..... 13" on 2/25 and 12" on 3/6-7.... So really a nice full winter season and 103" total. Yeah we had our biggies later in the season. 42 inch snowpack after 28" on 3/6-7. http://www.backtotheearthgroup.com/scottb/Stowe_2011/March%208/IMG_3813_edited-1.jpg[\img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastalWx Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 I had almost 20" more than my folks down to the se, but stupid urban heat Island screwed me. Their snowpack lasted longer then mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginx snewx Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 Lawrence PD shut down RT 28 4 feet of water Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORH_wxman Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 I had almost 20" more than my folks down to the se, but stupid urban heat Island screwed me. They're snowpack lasted longer then mine. Forested and being NW definitely helps...esp this past winter since the gradient in that area was so strong. It happens here too...N and NW side of ORH is much more wooded (and some extra elevation) than the S and SE side of town so there is often a large snow pack gradient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginx snewx Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 Forested and being NW definitely helps...esp this past winter since the gradient in that area was so strong. It happens here too...N and NW side of ORH is much more wooded (and some extra elevation) than the S and SE side of town so there is often a large snow pack gradient. The biggest saver for me was the severe Tstorm with 2 inches of rain which then froze solid, virtual glacier for weeks on end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastalWx Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 Forested and being NW definitely helps...esp this past winter since the gradient in that area was so strong. It happens here too...N and NW side of ORH is much more wooded (and some extra elevation) than the S and SE side of town so there is often a large snow pack gradient. Even in Norwell...they had this displayed even more so than in Marshfield. Being nw def helps. You can joke about it being the Tolland of the south shore, but there are little mesoscale things that happen there. OES is one of them. The other is the very fine gradient that set up this year. A person I knew in Pembroke kept saying how the part of town near Kingston had half the snow the other side near Hanover had. The rain/snow line literally crossed the town. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowman21 Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 It's been above normal, but not shocking if you have been watching NE wx for 40 years or so..... I can recall plenty of years where we just couldn't get any sustained chilly wx until around Thanksgiving. Then it turned and we had a cold and snowy winter. So I really am not worrying much about it and I hope Iberia is under a late season Azores ridge in early November. Then it can get cold.... Oh and I fly into JFK on the evening of the 16th. ...would be nice timing. It has been a top 10 warmest first half of Fall almost everywhere thus far. Here are the stats... ST ID MEAN RANK ST ID MEAN RANK -------------------------------------------------- CT BDL 64.9 6 ME AUG 60.2 8 CT BDR 67.3 5 ME BGR 59.2 8 CT DXR 63.8 2 ME CAR 56.2 3 CT GON 64.9 3 ME FVE 53.9 5 CT HFD 66.8 3 ME GNR 56.2 8 CT HVN 66.4 4 ME GYX 55.1 16 CT IJD 64.5 1 ME HUL 55.9 4 CT MMK 65.2 3 ME IWI 59.3 2 MA ACK 63.8 5 ME IZG 59.4 2 MA AQW 61.2 3 ME MLT 58.6 1 MA BAF 64.0 1 ME PWM 60.8 4 MA BED 63.0 5 NH AFN 60.0 3 MA BOS 66.2 5 NH BML 56.8 2 MA BVY 63.1 3 NH CON 60.9 4 MA CHH 63.7 6 NH DAW 61.5 3 MA CQX 65.8 1 NH HIE 56.7 2 MA EWB 64.2 2 NH LEB 60.6 2 MA FIT 64.1 1 NH MHT 63.7 3 MA HYA 63.9 2 NH MWN 44.3 3 MA LWM 65.1 1 RI PVD 65.7 8 MA MQE 60.9 40 RI UUU 64.7 2 MA MVY 65.0 1 RI WST 64.9 2 MA ORE 61.7 2 VT 1V4 58.8 16 MA ORH 62.7 6 VT BTV 61.1 6 MA OWD 64.4 1 VT DDH 60.5 2 MA PSF 60.2 7 VT MPV 58.9 4 MA PYM 65.2 1 VT MVL 58.9 2 MA TAN 63.5 3 VT VSF 61.5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORH_wxman Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 Even in Norwell...they had this displayed even more so than in Marshfield. Being nw def helps. You can joke about it being the Tolland of the south shore, but there are little mesoscale things that happen there. OES is one of them. The other is the very fine gradient that set up this year. A person I knew in Pembroke kept saying how the part of town near Kingston had half the snow the other side near Hanover had. The rain/snow line literally crossed the town. They get a lot of CFs to set up right around there...so the part of town that often ends up on the cold side would have more impressive snow and snow pack. I bet thats part of it too. It is definitely neat to see some of the different microclimates when it comes to snow pack retention. It seems to affect the pack more than the actual snowfall itself. Like you said, they kept snow longer on the ground than you did despite you getting 20" more than them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N. OF PIKE Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 speaking of snow pack .....would it be accurate to state the white's keep there pack longer than the greens (in general) .....i just rememer sking wildcat which is mostly shaded from sun....in late april last year and they still had tons of snow ...esp above 3000'. also it would seem there is more QPF in the 200 annual inches of snowfall wildcat get's then say the 300 or so that stowe and jay get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORH_wxman Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 speaking of snow pack .....would it be accurate to state the white's keep there pack longer than the greens (in general) .....i just rememer sking wildcat which is mostly shaded from sun....in late april last year and they still had tons of snow ...esp above 3000'. also it would seem there is more QPF in the 200 annual inches of snowfall wildcat get's then say the 300 or so that stowe and jay get. Yes they hold cold air better than the Greens in general. The WE is higher too in their snow since a lot of the northern Greens snowfall is upslope snow with extremely high ratios. Its like LES. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N. OF PIKE Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 a general OT question for will why does blue hill average nearly 50 percent more snow than boston for a relatively meager elevation change of 600 feet. is there upslipe component off the ocean that is a sizeable factor it made me wonder when i lived in framingham if the area in Nobscot, Ma (N framingham) that reaches approx 600 feet would average say 20 percent more snow than the surrounding locale's which have about 400 feet less elevation? any idea. btw there is a road that goes up to like 580' next to the top of nobscot hill. OT ....but just wondering Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastalWx Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 They get a lot of CFs to set up right around there...so the part of town that often ends up on the cold side would have more impressive snow and snow pack. I bet thats part of it too. It is definitely neat to see some of the different microclimates when it comes to snow pack retention. It seems to affect the pack more than the actual snowfall itself. Like you said, they kept snow longer on the ground than you did despite you getting 20" more than them. I notice this many times on rt 3. There can be a huge difference between exit 15 (Hingham) to exit 10 (Duxbury/Kingston). If it's not a CF..it may be the mid levels that favor the areas to the north...like this year. The difference between where my parents live and PYM was remarkable. I know those who aren't from the area may not care, but when you are from the area...you notice these things. Off topic here....but this is kind of interesting. I was telling Will, that sometimes..you can see OES type stuff on radar. Sometimes it shows up as cellular type cells moving in from the ene to wsw. When these cells come in, the snow growth is putrid, but vis sometimes drops below 1/4sm. I see these many times in snow events..even if they are tough to see on radar. I guess what it could mean..is that while snow growth wasn't great...it added to the snowpack and water equivalent..moreso than the actual height of the snowpack. This is more noticeable in cold antecedent events..but it most certainly happens. Again...I know most don't care about it...but something I have noticed while living there. I'm sure Will can bring about examples where he noticed a little lift over the hills..during events with good easterly flow. My friend Dan (meteotrade) used to tell me how drizzle events got a little heavier at the top of his hill near ORH airport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIcoastalWX Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 4th thunderstorm of the evening in progress... just about an inch since the first storm at 5:30pm. Each storm has a different intensity... the first one had some good wind gusts... the second had torrential rain and virtually no wind.... the third had very loud thunder and now this 4th one has vivid lightning and some thunder blasts. Pretty impressive for mid-October.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastalWx Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 That was our peak depth. After that...it was a slow death in snow pack. Here is March 4th. Compare that to the pic I had at 2/2 Edit...that was 2/26. Even worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORH_wxman Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 a general OT question for will why does blue hill average nearly 50 percent more snow than boston for a relatively meager elevation change of 600 feet. is there upslipe component off the ocean that is a sizeable factor it made me wonder when i lived in framingham if the area in Nobscot, Ma (N framingham) that reaches approx 600 feet would average say 20 percent more snow than the surrounding locale's which have about 400 feet less elevation? any idea. btw there is a road that goes up to like 580' next to the top of nobscot hill. OT ....but just wondering Blue Hill is a bit inland...you can't leave that part out. Its SW of the city so that actually protects it even more on an E or ENE wind vs BOS because of the south shore sticking out just S of BOS. I don't think they get a lot of upslope because the geographical area is too small...maybe some minor upslope. With an area that small, you'd need a much larger elevation change. The areas around MQE probably average low 50s....esp just W of them. The Walpole coop just W of them averages 53" per year. Add about 1" of snow increase for every 100 feet increase and that gets you to 58 inches per year (MQE is 635 feet and Walpole coop is 170 feet)...and you are nearly at MQE's average. They average 60-61". Maybe throw in some minor upslope and a little latitude advantage on Walpole, and that can explain the other couple inches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORH_wxman Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 Again...I know most don't care about it...but something I have noticed while living there. I'm sure Will can bring about examples where he noticed a little lift over the hills..during events with good easterly flow. My friend Dan (meteotrade) used to tell me how drizzle events got a little heavier at the top of his hill near ORH airport. I've seen even in winter where we'll have a light inshore flow with overcast skies and trying to spit flurries...and then when you climb up the east slopes of the hills a bit, it becomes a steadier light snow...almost like a drizzle version of snow...small flakes but dense in coverage...You see is max out on the spine, esp areas like weenie ridge, and then when you go west of the spine, it shuts off and it can be doing nothing at all 5-10 miles W. I remember this happening on Dec 26, 2009. We picked up a few tenths with that "snizzle" type stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HIPPYVALLEY Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 That was at 2/2...right when we flipped over. Same storm, can't see it in the photo but there was a nice glaze of ice over a deep snow pack. At that point winter was kicking azz! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Torchey Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 63/56 Cooling down quickly and dews dropping. Episode V never dissapoints and yet another generation hooked.................................may the torch be with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baroclinic Zone Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 I see my name being thrown around like Tom Brady TDs. Nice slug of rain moving in. Already 0.63" on the day with 1.34" yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ski MRG Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 Will you just admit you were wrong for once? Wrong about what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastalWx Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 Blue Hill is a bit inland...you can't leave that part out. Its SW of the city so that actually protects it even more on an E or ENE wind vs BOS because of the south shore sticking out just S of BOS. I don't think they get a lot of upslope because the geographical area is too small...maybe some minor upslope. With an area that small, you'd need a much larger elevation change. The areas around MQE probably average low 50s....esp just W of them. The Walpole coop just W of them averages 53" per year. Add about 1" of snow increase for every 100 feet increase and that gets you to 58 inches per year (MQE is 635 feet and Walpole coop is 170 feet)...and you are nearly at MQE's average. They average 60-61". Maybe throw in some minor upslope and a little latitude advantage on Walpole, and that can explain the other couple inches. Yeah even where I am...it helps being just a bit inland. I'm only a mile inland, but just a little bit of that colder air aloft mixes down and can help me stay closer to 32 instead of 32.5 or 33 on the water front. I think MQE maybe gets a little benefit from some very weak upslope and/or land sea convergence, but they aren't necessarily located in the best area for that, which is along the rt 3 corridor south of Braintree...where the wind is perpendicular to the coastline and is also forced up a couple of hundred feet. Also, Pickles, don't forget...in those storms where Logan is 33 and having trouble accumulating...MQE is 32 and accumulating well. That 1degree F means everything...and this is very common along the coastline near BOS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoarfrostHubb Posted October 15, 2011 Author Share Posted October 15, 2011 I wish Wachusett had a nice mesonet station and would postcaccurare summit and base totals... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ski MRG Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 I see my name being thrown around like Tom Brady picks. Nice slug of rain moving in. Already 0.63" on the day with 1.34" yesterday. FYP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORH_wxman Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 I wish Wachusett had a nice mesonet station and would postcaccurare summit and base totals... One of the coolest things to see at Wachusett during the 2008 ice storm was that the summit had less ice than lower down. The ice seemed to max out at around 1500 feet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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