Splitting Central/Western Poll

[Lookout]

i made an awesome map showing how the split should work a while back but it has since been deleted from my computer

Maybe you should redraw it..just an idea though

In fact, I think it might be a good idea for members to come up with maps and suggestions and have a vote on the best ones. Maybe start with all of them and narrow it down to two and have a vote.

[k***]

here it is...i'd make this a region and leave the rest as a catch-all central/western forum

it was from this thread, where a lot of this stuff got hashed out a while back http://www.americanwx.com/bb/index.php/topic/21772-when-is-the-centralwestern-subforum-going-to-be-split-into-pieces/page__st__40

[Ed Lizard]

here it is...i'd make this a region and leave the rest as a catch-all central/western forum

it was from this thread, where a lot of this stuff got hashed out a while back http://www.americanw...es/page__st__40

We might lose some Indiana posters that way (in the remaining Central), but if most of the severe weather heavies still posted in the Central forum (and it helps Oklahoma and OU stays in the forum along with traditional tornado alley) for wide scale Spring outbreaks, it'd work for me.

[Ian]

From my perspective this is something that will happen whether now or soon in the future. Given how the rest of the site is structured it's only a matter of population to fill a subforum with.

I think it's pretty standard to have about half wanting and half not. Most of the polls on the original split lined up pretty close to that.

Either here or in another thread (can look through the one kush linked) the main discussion should be on boundaries for any split. Of course the lakes/OV should be the new forum it's a question of where we make the cut.

[OceanStWx]

here it is...i'd make this a region and leave the rest as a catch-all central/western forum

I don't have much problem with that split, though I would consider myself in the indifferent (and no longer a resident of this region) category. Seeing as I enjoy severe weather, I'll be posting in any forum that has a threat. And maybe less thread traffic in each subforum might lend itself more to daily threat threads rather than discussing tomorrow's outlook mixed in with current obs?

I actually like the split in Iowa at I-35, as the two halves of the state can often seem like different climates.

[Srain]

btw i am shocked at the voting turnaround since yesterday...when i weighed in it was like 8-1 for the no's

Actually I'm not surprised at all.

From my perspective this is something that will happen whether now or soon in the future. Given how the rest of the site is structured it's only a matter of population to fill a subforum with.

I think it's pretty standard to have about half wanting and half not. Most of the polls on the original split lined up pretty close to that.

Either here or in another thread (can look through the one kush linked) the main discussion should be on boundaries for any split. Of course the lakes/OV should be the new forum it's a question of where we make the cut.

Good to see that you agree, Ian. The time has come to look seriously at making some changes. The numbers don't lie and the views are up. After all, it has always been about growing this region and we are seeing the 'fruits of the efforts' many have put forward to add new folks. That is a good thing for our community as a whole, don't you think?

[k***]

I don't have much problem with that split, though I would consider myself in the indifferent (and no longer a resident of this region) category. Seeing as I enjoy severe weather, I'll be posting in any forum that has a threat. And maybe less thread traffic in each subforum might lend itself more to daily threat threads rather than discussing tomorrow's outlook mixed in with current obs?

I actually like the split in Iowa at I-35, as the two halves of the state can often seem like different climates.

It's cool that the weather worked out that way. I split Iowa in half like that not for weather reasons, but for social reasons. The cedar rapids and quad cities people have always posted with and gotten along well with the people to the west in IL/IN

[Ian]

Good to see that you agree, Ian. The time has come to look seriously at making some changes. The numbers don't lie and the views are up. After all, it has always been about growing this region and we are seeing the 'fruits of the efforts' many have put forward to add new folks. That is a good thing for our community as a whole, don't you think?

Overall I'm still not completely in love with subforums. In a perfect world there would be a better way to keep everyone in the same forum with quick sortability. We've not figured out how to do that here though. There are also a number of positives of course as well. But again, given how the rest of the forum is now setup there is no reason to think that the west forum would remain a huge catch all as American continues to grow--and theoretically (outside sheer numbers east of the Apps) we should have more growth to go in the west than the east given that we're still relatively new on the whole U.S. scale despite the fact that we had a strong contingent at Eastern.

[Srain]

Overall I'm still not completely in love with subforums.

Nor am I. In fact back in the old days on Eastern, Hoosier and I disagreed rather strongly about dividing the Western Region at that time. But all in all, it has made for a better situation and a bit of 'tweaking' should continue to benefit the community as a whole. As I stated last night, we've come a long way since those baron wide open spaces of the old Western Sub Forum and that is a good thing, IMO.

[Ian]

Nor am I. In fact back in the old days on Eastern, Hoosier and I disagreed rather strongly about dividing the Western Region at that time. But all in all, it has made for a better situation and a bit of 'tweaking' should continue to benefit the community as a whole. As I stated last night, we've come a long way since those baron wide open spaces of the old Western Sub Forum and that is a good thing, IMO.

Yes. I think the points to do so are stronger than "no because I like it how it is" arguments. Change is annoying.. but we get used to it and it often makes at least some things better.

[baroclinic_instability]

here it is...i'd make this a region and leave the rest as a catch-all central/western forum

it was from this thread, where a lot of this stuff got hashed out a while back http://www.americanw...es/page__st__40

I am mostly ok with that except the the line splits the Twin Cities metro area and Des Moines down the middle. Something close to I35 works but we couldn't use it verbatim.

[k***]

I am mostly ok with that except the the line splits the Twin Cities metro area and Des Moines down the middle. Something close to I35 works but we couldn't use it verbatim.

it wasn't really meant to be a high rez map...obviously we shouldn't split big metro areas.

[cyclone77]

...I actually like the split in Iowa at I-35, as the two halves of the state can often seem like different climates.

I agree. As Baro pointed out splitting a state may be not work though as it would split Des Moines/Minneapolis, etc. Of course then you have some large cities right on borders as well. For that reason I think maybe the best way to go would include the states that are on the border in each of the new divisions. So with K*** example we could have Iowa in both the Midwest sub, and the west. I know I will definitely still post in the western side when weather action (chasing) is in that region. I think for people along the border areas will swing to either sub depending on how a given storm system is playing out. Hope this all makes sense lol.

EDITED for my lack of typing abilities lmao

[Hoosier]

I like kush's basic outline. St Louis/Minneapolis and perhaps Des Moines metro areas could be the western boundary of the Lakes/OV subforum (or Midwest/OV or whatever we call it). Des Moines is the one I'm having some trouble with.

[baroclinic_instability]

I like kush's basic outline. St Louis/Minneapolis and perhaps Des Moines metro areas could be the western boundary of the Lakes/OV subforum (or Midwest/OV or whatever we call it). Des Moines is the one I'm having some trouble with.

I am ok with it except cutting having the boundary along the Mississippi river. Nice and easy as all of MN would be in the western and all of WI would be in the Lakes region.

[Hoosier]

I am ok with it except cutting having the boundary along the Mississippi river. Nice and easy as all of MN would be in the western and all of WI would be in the Lakes region.

That is a possibility but I think I remember the MSP crowd saying that they'd rather be in the Lakes region. I could be mistaken though.

[snowstormcanuck]

That is a possibility but I think I remember the MSP crowd saying that they'd rather be in the Lakes region. I could be mistaken though.

You're not. Msp said that in the OT thread. If the sectioning goes ahead, I'm guessing there'll be a certain degree of leeway given to members, especially members residing near regional borders, as to where they want to post?

[baroclinic_instability]

That is a possibility but I think I remember the MSP crowd saying that they'd rather be in the Lakes region. I could be mistaken though.

You're not. Msp said that in the OT thread. If the sectioning goes ahead, I'm guessing there'll be a certain degree of leeway given to members, especially members residing near regional borders, as to where they want to post?

yeah he did, but msp is likely the only one who believes that.

The reality is, and I have argued it quite a bit in the OT threads, should a split be done, it would be to foster forum growth across the remaining central/western, and the Twin Cities is one major area which has a ton of growth potential but has seen little to no growth the past year. Keeping the Twin Cities in the Lakes region makes no sense at all. msp mainly mentioned it because he knows the folks in the lakes region, but that isn't really a valid reason to keep it part of the Lakes...especially considering both the terrain and weather are much more similar to the plains.

[Hoosier]

I tweaked kush's map. May not have drawn it perfectly but the idea is to have the Minneapolis and Des Moines metros in the eastern forum.

[Hoosier]

yeah he did, but msp is likely the only one who believes that.

The reality is, and I have argued it quite a bit in the OT threads, that the split would be to foster forum growth across the remaining central/western. Keeping the Twin Cities in the Lakes region makes no sense at all. MSP mainly mentioned it because he knows the folks in the lakes region, but that isn't really a valid reason to keep it part of the Lakes...especially considering both the terrain and weather are much more similar to the plains.

The war over Minneapolis.... I guess I don't care a whole lot either way. Actually, wouldn't dividing at the river split MSP metro (I'm assuming they have some Wisconsin counties in the metro area?)

[baroclinic_instability]

The war over Minneapolis.... I guess I don't care a whole lot either way. Actually, wouldn't dividing at the river split MSP metro (I'm assuming they have some Wisconsin counties in the metro area?)

Not really, very little of the Twin Cities population goes across the river.

[baroclinic_instability]

I tweaked kush's map. May not have drawn it perfectly but the idea is to have the Minneapolis and Des Moines metros in the eastern forum.

It simply should not be in the eastern region. I guess I don't understand why the other folks don't see it, but that area is grossly under-represented, and it gets way too much hate from quite a few in the lakes region. There is a reason it doesn't grow. Besides Prins and I, there are no regulars who post frequently from that area (except msp when he is back from college). For a metro area pushing 4 million, that really isn't acceptable.

[Hoosier]

This scenario would have MSP/Des Moines metros in the new subforum

[snowstormcanuck]

yeah he did, but msp is likely the only one who believes that.

The reality is, and I have argued it quite a bit in the OT threads, should a split be done, it would be to foster forum growth across the remaining central/western, and the Twin Cities is one major area which has a ton of growth potential but has seen little to no growth the past year. Keeping the Twin Cities in the Lakes region makes no sense at all. msp mainly mentioned it because he knows the folks in the lakes region, but that isn't really a valid reason to keep it part of the Lakes...especially considering both the terrain and weather are much more similar to the plains.

To be honest, I only vaguely know any other MN posters. But perhaps that proves your point. It may be because they're primarily posting in the Plains thread. Regardless though, if members have some degree of latitude to post where they please so long as it doesn't flagrantly run afoul of how the subforums are constituted territorially, I don't think there'll be much of a problem with the MSP/DSM/STL crowd. Right? I'm assuming the staff isn't going to start deleting msp's posts/warning him because he's posting in the GL subforum.

[Chicago WX]

It simply should not be in the eastern region. I guess I don't understand why the other folks don't see it, but that area is grossly under-represented, and it gets way too much hate from quite a few in the lakes region. There is a reason it doesn't grow. Besides Prins and I, there are no regulars who post frequently from that area (except msp when he is back from college). For a metro area pushing 4 million, that really isn't acceptable.

Curious what you mean by the bolded above.

Hoosier's second map probably looks good. MSP and DSM to the central/western forum.

[Hoosier]

To be honest, I only vaguely know any other MN posters. But perhaps that proves your point. It may be because they're primarily posting in the Plains thread. Regardless though, if members have some degree of latitude to post where they please so long as it doesn't flagrantly run afoul of how the subforums are constituted territorially, I don't think there'll be much of a problem with the MSP/DSM/STL crowd. Right? I'm assuming the staff isn't going to start deleting msp's posts/warning him because he's posting in the GL subforum.

Ideally we'd like to have people from the same area posting in the same forum. Having Minneapolis discussion in 2 subforums is not really appealing.

[snowstormcanuck]

It simply should not be in the eastern region. I guess I don't understand why the other folks don't see it, but that area is grossly under-represented, and it gets way too much hate from quite a few in the lakes region. There is a reason it doesn't grow. Besides Prins and I, there are no regulars who post frequently from that area (except msp when he is back from college). For a metro area pushing 4 million, that really isn't acceptable.

Oops. Prins! How could I forget about her!

I think the reason why some would prefer the MSP crowd in the Lakes forum is for historical reasons. Traditionally, the MN folks posted in the GL/MW/OV threads in the main forum over at Eastern, prior to the introduction of subforums. Honestly, I have no personal preference, but that's just a hunch of mine as to the source of the desire.

And honestly, I don't recall any of this "hate" being spewed upon the MN folks, at least during the winter.

[baroclinic_instability]

Curious what you mean by the bolded above.

Hoosier's second map probably looks good. MSP and DSM to the central/western forum.

Perhaps too strongly worded by me. I just saw this winter way too much jealousy and even some anger when the cities would get a snow storm.

[snowstormcanuck]

Ideally we'd like to have people from the same area posting in the same forum. Having Minneapolis discussion in 2 subforums is not really appealing.

Well, then go with what the membership wants. I don't think you have to be sticklers about geography. If the MN folks want clearly want to secede, fine. If not, fine as well.

[baroclinic_instability]

Oops. Prins! How could I forget about her!

I think the reason why some would prefer the MSP crowd in the Lakes forum is for historical reasons. Traditionally, the MN folks posted in the GL/MW/OV threads in the main forum over at Eastern, prior to the introduction of subforums. Honestly, I have no personal preference, but that's just a hunch of mine as to the source of the desire.

And honestly, I don't recall any of this "hate" being spewed upon the MN folks, at least during the winter.

It is something you notice when you are one of the few posters posting from the area. It is something that likely goes unnoticed by those not from the area, but you notice it when you are from the area.