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Dec 11-13 MW/Lakes/OV Snow Event? Part II


Chicago Storm

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nobody is out of this thing yet given its not being sampled fully. agree with Alek that the 12z GFS is a step in the right direction and that and the 12z NAM do have some pretty big differences on the placements of the different lows. given the insane jet behind this thing I dont see how a southern low wont try and dominant.

another thing I have noticed is in the qpf map how there is a little area that has less qpf as this system comes through. most likely that area with less precip is due in part to subsidence behind the lead vort that drops snow tonight.

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It's been very close, 00z being the closest run. I understand why it's developing the system where it is on the 12Z (basic Pettersen rule - s/w over a baroclinic boundary), but everything I've been taught tells me to look for the vort max just to the left and slightly ahead of the left exit region in a situation like this. Instead, we end up with a primary low that's completely detached from the jet forcing and under 30-40kt of 300mb flow?

The 00z run may have been a bit overboard, but at least I could sit down and connect all the features together nicely. It's an incredibly jumbled mess on this run.

My issue is the primary track as well considering where this thing tries to close off etc.

As for 12z GFS.. meh.. As ale said it is somewhat a step in the right direction..

Still a bit of difference though..

NAM

nam_300_084s.gif

VS GFS..

gfs_200_084s.gif

NAM..

nam_500_084s.gif

vs GFS..

gfs_500_084s.gif

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:weenie: :weenie: :weenie:

Well you might as well give the hotdog.gif to HPC alsobiggrin.gif

PRELIMINARY EXTENDED FORECAST DISCUSSION

NWS HYDROMETEOROLOGICAL PREDICTION CENTER CAMP SPRINGS MD

850 AM EST SUN DEC 05 2010

VALID 12Z THU DEC 09 2010 - 12Z SUN DEC 12 2010

GOOD MODEL AND ENSEMBLE AGREEMENT CONTINUES THRU MOST OF THE

FORECAST PERIOD AT LEAST THRU NEXT FRIDAY DAY 5. MAJOR DIFFERENCES

AND CONTINUITY CHANGES BEGIN TO SHOW LATER DAY 5 FRIDAY AND CARRY

THRU THE WEEKEND AND EARLY NEXT WEEK. THE BEGINNING DIFFERENCE IS

THE HANDLING OF A FAST MOVING PAC SHORTWAVE COMING INTO THE WEST

COAST IN THE LA NINA FLOW REGIME. THE OPERATIONAL 00Z AND 06Z

GFS/DGEX AND 00Z ECMWF BUILD MORE EPAC RIDGING NWD ALONG THE WEST

COAST DAY6 SAT ALLOWING FOR THIS SHORTWAVE TO DIG SOUTHEAST THRU

THE PLAINS. BY DAY 7 SUNDAY BOTH 00Z/06Z GFS/DGEX AND ESPECIALLY

00Z ECMWF HAVE A VERY WELL DEVELOPED SHORTWAVE WITH CLOSED MID

LEVEL LOW POTENTIAL. 00Z ECMWF THAN TAKES ANOTHER DIGGING

SHORTWAVE SOUTHWARD THRU CENTRAL CANADA AND PHASES IT INTO THE OH

VALLEY CLOSED LOW LATE DAY 7 AND DAY 8 CREATING A HYPER STORM WITH

CONCURRENCE BY DGEX. THIS EXTREME SOLUTION IS SIMILAR TO THE GREAT

STORM OF 25-26 NOV 1950. WHAT IS DISCONCERTING IS THAT CPC D+8 TO

D+11 ANALOGS HAVE INDICATED A SYNOPTIC PATTERN MATCHING THOSE

DATES FOR WEEKS INCLUDING TODAYS. THAT WAS ALSO A LA NINA YEAR

WITH A STRONG NEGATIVE NAO. DUE TO DECREASING MODEL VERIFICATION

AT THAT TIME WITH A SUDDEN CONTINUITY CHANGE IT IS PRUDENT TO STAY

AWAY FOR THIS TYPE OF SOLUTION AT LEAST FOR NOW. WHAT IS AGREED

UPON IS THE OVERALL PATTERN OF A RETURN OF WRN CONUS/ROCKY MTN

RIDGING AND A DEEP ERN CONUS TROF.

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Well you might as well give the hotdog.gif to HPC alsobiggrin.gif

PRELIMINARY EXTENDED FORECAST DISCUSSION

NWS HYDROMETEOROLOGICAL PREDICTION CENTER CAMP SPRINGS MD

850 AM EST SUN DEC 05 2010

VALID 12Z THU DEC 09 2010 - 12Z SUN DEC 12 2010

GOOD MODEL AND ENSEMBLE AGREEMENT CONTINUES THRU MOST OF THE

FORECAST PERIOD AT LEAST THRU NEXT FRIDAY DAY 5. MAJOR DIFFERENCES

AND CONTINUITY CHANGES BEGIN TO SHOW LATER DAY 5 FRIDAY AND CARRY

THRU THE WEEKEND AND EARLY NEXT WEEK. THE BEGINNING DIFFERENCE IS

THE HANDLING OF A FAST MOVING PAC SHORTWAVE COMING INTO THE WEST

COAST IN THE LA NINA FLOW REGIME. THE OPERATIONAL 00Z AND 06Z

GFS/DGEX AND 00Z ECMWF BUILD MORE EPAC RIDGING NWD ALONG THE WEST

COAST DAY6 SAT ALLOWING FOR THIS SHORTWAVE TO DIG SOUTHEAST THRU

THE PLAINS. BY DAY 7 SUNDAY BOTH 00Z/06Z GFS/DGEX AND ESPECIALLY

00Z ECMWF HAVE A VERY WELL DEVELOPED SHORTWAVE WITH CLOSED MID

LEVEL LOW POTENTIAL. 00Z ECMWF THAN TAKES ANOTHER DIGGING

SHORTWAVE SOUTHWARD THRU CENTRAL CANADA AND PHASES IT INTO THE OH

VALLEY CLOSED LOW LATE DAY 7 AND DAY 8 CREATING A HYPER STORM WITH

CONCURRENCE BY DGEX. THIS EXTREME SOLUTION IS SIMILAR TO THE GREAT

STORM OF 25-26 NOV 1950. WHAT IS DISCONCERTING IS THAT CPC D+8 TO

D+11 ANALOGS HAVE INDICATED A SYNOPTIC PATTERN MATCHING THOSE

DATES FOR WEEKS INCLUDING TODAYS. THAT WAS ALSO A LA NINA YEAR

WITH A STRONG NEGATIVE NAO. DUE TO DECREASING MODEL VERIFICATION

AT THAT TIME WITH A SUDDEN CONTINUITY CHANGE IT IS PRUDENT TO STAY

AWAY FOR THIS TYPE OF SOLUTION AT LEAST FOR NOW. WHAT IS AGREED

UPON IS THE OVERALL PATTERN OF A RETURN OF WRN CONUS/ROCKY MTN

RIDGING AND A DEEP ERN CONUS TROF.

damn i'm good :weight_lift:

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