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Dec 11-13 MW/Lakes/OV Snow Event? Part II


Chicago Storm

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It still seems like an odd solution for the NAM, with a lack of really strong support for the northern low to continue to dominate. The amount of jet energy and diffluence would strongly suggest something farther south.

And the 06z GFS...well 60 dewpoints into LA and it fires no convection?

Yeah I swear these models sometimes do things that just make you think.

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John Dee sticking to his previous thinking and forecast:

The main rain/snow line looks to set up very close to I-80 across central IA, northern IL, IN and OH and the heaviest snows will fall from just to the north of that line and north around 150-200 miles or so. So northeast IA, southeast MN, far northern IL, IN and OH as well as the southern 2/3rds of WI and much of southern lower MI look to see as much as 4-8" fall later Saturday into Sunday, with some locales picking up more than 8" out of this event.

For areas south of the main rain-snow line, it looks like primarily a rain event, possibly finishing as a bit of light snow. For the Northwoods of MN and WI, it just looks cold, with some LES possible in the Duluth and far NW WI area and perhaps some snow in the far southern reaches of the Northwoods of WI.

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It's the lead vort max that's causing all of the havoc we're seeing in the solutions... which is still in the data void of the Pacific, hence the ridiculous swings. Where this thing tracks is ultimately dependent on how strong the wave is after it gets through the cheese grater (Rockies), because if it's not that strong, then the left exit region of that 170kt jet max will overwhelm the forcing to the north and cause the southern track. So there's really two scenarios here, and we appear to be near the borderline, hence some of the struggling w/ two lows (like the Euro last night, for instance).

Been reading your post ( and a few others ) and i agree alot with what you have had to say. Awesome post man.

Now about that horrible NAM..

Does anyone realize ( you probably do as may a few others ) how close this NAM run is to a EPIC bomb in this region? Close this thing off SAY 100/150 miles s of where it attempts to AND with the tilt this model has at 84 hrs with that system from the south coming up ( would be drawn nnw thanks to closed low ) and things are gonna go BOOM in a very big way. Still plenty of time for that to happen as well especially considering it has yet to be sampled. And please no mention of past events. :P

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what a horror show the NAM is

:lol:

(edit- for some, for others its great! :hug: )

really enjoying the increased input from the mets in this subforum compared to previous years, thanks!.....(and the usual suspects as always)

since they almost live in Canada :guitar: they can head over to the super northern Americanwx boards, it's winter all the time.

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Does anyone realize ( you probably do as may a few others ) how close this NAM run is to a EPIC bomb in this region? Close this thing off SAY 100/150 miles s of where it attempts to AND with the tilt this model has at 84 hrs with that system from the south coming up ( would be drawn nnw thanks to closed low ) and things are gonna go BOOM in a very big way. Still plenty of time for that to happen as well especially considering it has yet to be sampled. And please no mention of past events. :P

It's been very close, 00z being the closest run. I understand why it's developing the system where it is on the 12Z (basic Pettersen rule - s/w over a baroclinic boundary), but everything I've been taught tells me to look for the vort max just to the left and slightly ahead of the left exit region in a situation like this. Instead, we end up with a primary low that's completely detached from the jet forcing and under 30-40kt of 300mb flow?

The 00z run may have been a bit overboard, but at least I could sit down and connect all the features together nicely. It's an incredibly jumbled mess on this run.

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lol...btw, its a 996 surface low and the i-70 corridor from IL to OH is getting hammered.....also looking at the isobars in the surface low it looks like it might actually be heading se

I'll take one Ukie please

The ul s/w is still digging at 72. It looks like it's about to spawn an Appalachian bomb, just too far north.

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At least the 12z GFS is getting a more meteorologically sound solution. It is firing convection where the jet is creating the best diffluence, and as a result the surface is a touch farther south, where you'd expect it.

The Ukie makes sense too, driving the 500 low southeast where the jet energy is.

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