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Dec 11-13 MW/Lakes/OV Snow Event? Part II


Chicago Storm

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We have to remember that 24 hour storm totals of 30+ cm (over a foot) are exceedingly rare- and always have been- in Ottawa and Montreal, regardless of what some people say about them "always" being buried with snow back in the "old days". Honestly, one person posting on the CBC site last week said that when he was growing up in Ottawa in the early to mid 80s, there was always deep snowcover before Halloween and how the heavy rain on December 1st was therefore "proof" that winters aren't what they used to be be. I checked the Environment Canada data and could find no such year either in the 80s or the 70s! The only snowy Halloween I could find was halloween 1988 when 29cm fell the week before, but largely melted before the 31st. People's memories are very selective about the weather and they tend to remember the extremes. Also, there were different snow clearing techniques back in the old days which is why so many of the old photographs of montreal and Ottawa show snow piles measured in many feet. I'm sure people who are kids today will always remember the winter of 2007-2008 and how they waited for the schoolbus in knee deep snow and in their minds, as they get older, that will be the way "all" winters were. 2007-2008 was the third snowiest winter in Ottawa since Canadian Confederation in 1867. Unfortunately we can't expect that we'll get another big snow year just three years later.

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We have to remember that 24 hour storm totals of 30+ cm (over a foot) are exceedingly rare- and always have been- in Ottawa and Montreal, regardless of what some people say about them "always" being buried with snow back in the "old days". Honestly, one person posting on the CBC site last week said that when he was growing up in Ottawa in the early to mid 80s, there was always deep snowcover before Halloween and how the heavy rain on December 1st was therefore "proof" that winters aren't what they used to be be. I checked the Environment Canada data and could find no such year either in the 80s or the 70s! The only snowy Halloween I could find was halloween 1988 when 29cm fell the week before, but largely melted before the 31st. People's memories are very selective about the weather and they tend to remember the extremes. Also, there were different snow clearing techniques back in the old days which is why so many of the old photographs of montreal and Ottawa show snow piles measured in many feet. I'm sure people who are kids today will always remember the winter of 2007-2008 and how they waited for the schoolbus in knee deep snow and in their minds, as they get older, that will be the way "all" winters were. 2007-2008 was the third snowiest winter in Ottawa since Canadian Confederation in 1867. Unfortunately we can't expect that we'll get another big snow year just three years later.

Wow, you took words right out of my mouth. Peoples fictional memories of winters past are so false its sickening! LOL

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I'm not seeing the i-80 paralyzing blizzard....anyone else?

We don't learn. if the Euro has a northern solution a few days out, you might as well bank on all other models eventually following suit. Then, after that, you have to add about 50-100 miles to the northwest and that will give you your track.

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May I direct you to this thread where you can pitch a fit about missing out on this storm. Some of our members have already taken advantage of it.

http://www.americanw...mplaint-thread/

:lmao:

Good stuff man!

At least with the way to storm is shaping up, should make for a relatively good week for my trip. Cold, but no snow or ice along I-55..

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We don't learn. if the Euro has a northern solution a few days out, you might as well bank on all other models eventually following suit. Then, after that, you have to add about 50-100 miles to the northwest and that will give you your track.

I'm not sold this one is done evolving yet. The NAM closes off the northern 850 really quick, i wouldn't be surprised to see it take a little longer allowing the southern piece trying to get going around hr54 to have a little more influence. All that said at this stage the Euro deserves some credit for being the most consistent in favoring the northern low.

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Problem is, what inevitably happens in later runs is the back side dries up into oblivion.

true, unless we get more of a wave or stronger storm to form along the apps or the TN valley....which actually the euro at 00z was very bullish on. The nam is trying to get something going as well. We need that trough to go hardcore negative and it would pull anything that did form in the south further west.

grasping, but at this point everything is on the table..lol

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It's the lead vort max that's causing all of the havoc we're seeing in the solutions... which is still in the data void of the Pacific, hence the ridiculous swings. Where this thing tracks is ultimately dependent on how strong the wave is after it gets through the cheese grater (Rockies), because if it's not that strong, then the left exit region of that 170kt jet max will overwhelm the forcing to the north and cause the southern track. So there's really two scenarios here, and we appear to be near the borderline, hence some of the struggling w/ two lows (like the Euro last night, for instance).

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I'm not sold this one is done evolving yet. The NAM closes off the northern 850 really quick, i wouldn't be surprised to see it take a little longer allowing the southern piece trying to get going around hr54 to have a little more influence. All that said at this stage the Euro deserves some credit for being the most consistent in favoring the northern low.

It still seems like an odd solution for the NAM, with a lack of really strong support for the northern low to continue to dominate. The amount of jet energy and diffluence would strongly suggest something farther south.

And the 06z GFS...well 60 dewpoints into LA and it fires no convection?

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