adk Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 I've tried. I really tried. I hated the new site at first but I said...ok...give it try. We all don't like change. Well after a week of solid use I've now come to hate it even more. Its just terrible. I'd love somebody to explain to how it's better at all than the old site. NWS should be ashamed. As others have said I've seen better web products from 9th graders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WidreMann Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 I've tried. I really tried. I hated the new site at first but I said...ok...give it try. We all don't like change. Well after a week of solid use I've now come to hate it even more. Its just terrible. I'd love somebody to explain to how it's better at all than the old site. NWS should be ashamed. As others have said I've seen better web products from 9th graders. So far, the only "reason" that's been given that it's better is because it shows more products and at 3 hour increments. Well, there was nothing about the old site that precluded that. They use JavaScript links (!!!) instead of plain old HTML anchor tags. That's one of the big no-nos from What Not To Do In Webdev 101. Among other problems gleaned from looking at the source: use of inline styles, use of things like 'align="center"' on div tags instead of CSS, comments left in, JavaScript functions that do things that could have been done server-side. It's just a mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaculaWeather Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 I captured their code and was trying to make sense of what they did too. They use <div> inside of table cells... for what reason I have no idea. Very little CSS and mostly inline or html codes. I was kinda shocked, most of the new pages they've done weren't too bad. I've noticed that many of the pages that are created by NWS etc use tons of tables as the framework for their pages including many nested tables. That's REALLY old stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohleary Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 Bolded part is false. But it is as simple as modifying a script though... just it's a GrADS script, not an HTML/java script. Also, honestly with their supercomputing resources there is no excuse for their maps being even 10 seconds late. That's why I'm hoping InstantWeatherMaps gets some other models on his site by winter.<br> The images are not GrADS...they're made using GEMPAK. And the constraint isn't supercomputing resources...the images aren't served from the supercomputer...it's in the private NCEP network. The latency from when the data is available on the supercomputer to when it's available on the web site is mostly a short time moving the data from the supercomputer to the MAG back end and some post-processing on the MAG back end system. As a user of the site, I do have to agree that I like the old site much better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
earthlight Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 The SPC/NHC pages have made leaps and bounds the past few years so I can't complain. I love what they've done there. But this is really a step back--and for such an important website, too. I would bet that PSU Ewall is going to get a lot more traffic now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellinwood Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 I captured their code and was trying to make sense of what they did too. They use <div> inside of table cells... for what reason I have no idea. Very little CSS and mostly inline or html codes. I was kinda shocked, most of the new pages they've done weren't too bad. I've noticed that many of the pages that are created by NWS etc use tons of tables as the framework for their pages including many nested tables. That's REALLY old stuff. Find any iframes? ----- I use http://www.dejongonline.com/weather/weathermodel.htm for my NAM/GFS. There's a couple other sites like this, but at least one of them never updated to the new image links. The webmaster of the linked page lurks around here somewhere... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcwxguy Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 ill just keep using the same one as i like to use...Allan's Model and Weather Data Page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WidreMann Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 This may be of use: http://mag.ncep.noaa.gov/GemPakTier/MagQCDoc/MAF_to_MAG_translation.html It gives a translation of file names to information structure. Maybe AMWX should make a replacement version of the old NCEP version that links to the new files. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forkyfork Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 <shameless plug> http://txtornado.net/menu.htm </shameless plug> fantastic page... i will never use the ncep page again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LVblizzard Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 The old NCEP page wasn't that great to begin with, but the new one is just plain awful. InstantWeatherMaps, Ewall, Twisterdata, Wundermap, and pay sites like SV are better by a mile and those are what I've always used since I discovered them. They update faster, have a better selection of graphics, and nice features like zoom and sounding data are available unlike NCEP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Lightning Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 fantastic page... i will never use the ncep page again She also has the Western Atlantic maps for hurricane season which I love! I've been using her site for the last three years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozart Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 Sent email last night on it. Anyone know if they did any user testing, focus groups, etc. on this? Almost certainly, no thoughtfully designed human-interface or usability testing informed the extrusion of this monstrosity. The site bears the earmarks of an engineer's mind -- written by an engineer, to be adored only by an engineer. I sent NCEP a message a few days ago asking about exactly that. I said, "The new models page is absolutely horrid -- ponderous, labyrinthine, and piggishly slow. Tell the truth: you let an engineer design your user interface without guidance from normal human beings, didn't you? Didn't you?" The next day, I received this reply: "Thank you for your inquiry regarding the Model Analysis and Guidance Web site. We sincerely value your feedback and will continue to incorporate all constructive comments and ideas in our improvement and upgrade of the Model Analysis and Guidance site." Uh huh. Engineers, who would have us facing backwards on our bicycles and justify it mathematically, despise usability specialists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 The only thing that is neat is it seems to archive older runs but im not sure how far back that goes/will go. Otherwise it's a horrible "upgrade". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baroclinic_instability Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 New site adds 3 hour increments, surface temps and the actual 3 hour intervals come out much faster then the old site. Also the NMM and ARW come out as much as 30 minutes faster then any other website. For overall site though, I dont think ewall can be beat. Agreed. For NCEP models, EWALL and twisterdata are all I need. EWALL is still unbeatable, it only lags a little in how fast it comes. Twisterdata.com takes care of that, and it has soundings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dtk Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 Almost certainly, no thoughtfully designed human-interface or usability testing informed the extrusion of this monstrosity. The site bears the earmarks of an engineer's mind -- written by an engineer, to be adored only by an engineer. I sent NCEP a message a few days ago asking about exactly that. I said, "The new models page is absolutely horrid -- ponderous, labyrinthine, and piggishly slow. Tell the truth: you let an engineer design your user interface without guidance from normal human beings, didn't you? Didn't you?" The next day, I received this reply: "Thank you for your inquiry regarding the Model Analysis and Guidance Web site. We sincerely value your feedback and will continue to incorporate all constructive comments and ideas in our improvement and upgrade of the Model Analysis and Guidance site." How/why did you think this email would be helpful? They have actually taken constructive comments/ideas into consideration in the past (and will have upgrades / fixed in the future). I still don't get the uproar over this to be honest. The new site is not great, but I don't think it's so horrible either. There are tons of other websites out there with timely plots (or better yet, generate your own directly from the model output that is available) if this particular page doesn't suit your needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozart Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 How/why did you think this email would be helpful? They have actually taken constructive comments/ideas into consideration in the past (and will have upgrades / fixed in the future). Not all informative and useful customer complaints are strictly "constructive," as any customer-service rep can tell you. In any case, I didn't intend to be helpful, any more than I entertained fantasies about introducing a cultural change in that organization's design process, which is what future improvements would necessitate. I asked a simple (if snarky) question. I asked it twice. That it went unanswered, answered it. I still don't get the uproar over this to be honest. The new site is not great, but I don't think it's so horrible either. There are tons of other websites out there with timely plots (or better yet, generate your own directly from the model output that is available) if this particular page doesn't suit your needs. Nobody likes having something he previously found useful taken from him. I you like it, use it. As for your 'take your business elsewhere' line, how is that "helpful?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dtk Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 Not all informative and useful customer complaints are strictly "constructive," as any customer-service rep can tell you. In any case, I didn't intend to be helpful, any more than I entertained fantasies about introducing a cultural change in that organization's design process, which is what future improvements would necessitate. I asked a simple (if snarky) question. I asked it twice. That it went unanswered, answered it. Fair enough. I was simply making the the point that they have taken "customer feedback" seriously, and are working to improve things (several changes that were put into place already were the direct result of customer suggestions). Nobody likes having something he previously found useful taken from him. I you like it, use it. As for your 'take your business elsewhere' line, how is that "helpful?" I'm not necessarily trying to be 'helpful' (nor am I being 'snarky'), I'm stating my personal opinion and offering a suggestion. I'm in no way affiliated with the website, I'm just a user like everyone else in this thread. Nothing is really being "taken away" here; it's not like they suddenly decommissioned all of their graphics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baroclinic_instability Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 Not all informative and useful customer complaints are strictly "constructive," as any customer-service rep can tell you. In any case, I didn't intend to be helpful, any more than I entertained fantasies about introducing a cultural change in that organization's design process, which is what future improvements would necessitate. I asked a simple (if snarky) question. I asked it twice. That it went unanswered, answered it. Nobody likes having something he previously found useful taken from him. I you like it, use it. As for your 'take your business elsewhere' line, how is that "helpful?" The website stinks, I will admit that. In fact it is awful. There are better sites out there anyways, and it is clear NCEP knows this. NCEP creates the model guidance, and sure, it would be nice if the site was nicer, but they are much more worried about getting the data through NOAAport, etc. to the public/customers so they can make their better sites. I do hope changes are made, however. As for dtk, he works on the GFS data assimilation system, so there is no need to fire back at him as if he has anything to do with the NCEP website. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usedtobe Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 I didn't initially like the new site but now feel neutral about it but have a friend who really likes it. DTK is a big asset to board. He also sometimes plays a mean game of golf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozart Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 As for dtk, he works on the GFS data assimilation system, so there is no need to fire back at him as if he has anything to do with the NCEP website. Well, I certainly didn't mean to do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 I think there is just a wrong assumption that fancier is always better. The site is arguably a step up but did we really need to take that step to look at static images? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
okie333 Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 Agreed. For NCEP models, EWALL and twisterdata are all I need. EWALL is still unbeatable, it only lags a little in how fast it comes. Twisterdata.com takes care of that, and it has soundings. Try InstantWeatherMaps for the speed aspect of things... you can't get much better than 5 seconds (last I checked, TD had a few minutes lag for the GFS... it is second to none on the NAM though). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dtk Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 Well, I certainly didn't mean to do that. It is all good. I didn't feel like you were firing directly at me, and we're all entitled to our opinion. Like has been stated, I have no affiliation nor vested interest in the site. I'm not at all butt hurt that some people hate the new site, I just think some of the vitriol and complaining is over the top....especially considering that getting out model graphics is so low on the priority list (relative to the things B_I noted). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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