griteater Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 I continue to place more of my worry for this coming winter on the NAO state than I do the current snow cover. Just curious about your rationale for concerns with the NAO? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnowGoose69 Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 Just curious about your rationale for concerns with the NAO? The water temperature anomalies in the N Atlantic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
griteater Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 The water temperature anomalies in the N Atlantic Thanks, yeah, they were a lot warmer last Oct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WxUSAF Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 The bad news is that we have almost 13% less snow this year than we had last year. WHERE is just as important as HOW MUCH when it comes to snowcover, from what I've read. Last year had more snowcover on our side of the pole and a bit more in southern Siberia/N. China. Northern Siberia cover is about the same. NE Siberia is the most critical region from what I've read (although there is some debate on that I guess), and we've had that covered for a couple weeks now, which I think was a bit faster than last year. The snowcover on our side of the pole looks to really jump in the next week or so with some storms rolling through Canada. Here's the SST Anomaly maps for reference regarding the NAO: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tacoman25 Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 Lots of really cold air building in the Arctic now. Good to see this time of year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QVectorman Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 WHERE is just as important as HOW MUCH when it comes to snowcover, from what I've read. Last year had more snowcover on our side of the pole and a bit more in southern Siberia/N. China. Northern Siberia cover is about the same. NE Siberia is the most critical region from what I've read (although there is some debate on that I guess), and we've had that covered for a couple weeks now, which I think was a bit faster than last year. Apparently ppl in this thread are still having issues understanding this. Unless I missed a paper that says North America/Northern Canadian snow cover in October has some type of influence on DJF snow cover in N.A. Reading the the first couple of pages of the thread from back in Sept. the discussion focused on Euroasia and Siberia but since the middle of September it has developed into a N.H./N.America snow and ice cover discussion with little focus on EA and Siberia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QVectorman Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 Found this little nugget from Matt posted last month! Looks like a little more coverage of snow for Siberia this week along with some added depth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skierinvermont Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 WHERE is just as important as HOW MUCH when it comes to snowcover, from what I've read. Last year had more snowcover on our side of the pole and a bit more in southern Siberia/N. China. Northern Siberia cover is about the same. NE Siberia is the most critical region from what I've read (although there is some debate on that I guess), and we've had that covered for a couple weeks now, which I think was a bit faster than last year. I think every year has NE Siberia covered by that time of year. Our biggest deficits right now are in Eurasia and have been throughout this entire month. There's no way around it.. this has been a terrible month for snow in the critical areas. Here is a time series of the month, Oct 3, 11, 16, 22, and 25. Note the consistently below normal snow cover in Eurasia with nearly no above average pixels in Eurasia the entire month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QVectorman Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 Good maps & info Looks better like this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAD Addict Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 Looks like we had some pretty good increases on the other side of the globe today. Yesterday: Today: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikolai Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 Quebec is now covered as well--I'd guess that between yesterday and today we've gone back above normal for snowcover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BethesdaWX Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 Nice gains today it looks like, Ice Extent is skyrocketing too we're passing 2010 now on NORSEX. Ryan Maue's site shows extended periods of below average temps over the Arctic, actually averaging below normal for the 132-hour period which is impressive given the albedo-loss effect up there. GFS surface has a diurnal flux isse so the anoms wont be exact but a good sign for increased snow and ice cover. Can see the effect of the snowcover in Russia reflecting SW radiation leading to cooler temperatures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WidreMann Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 I think every year has NE Siberia covered by that time of year. Our biggest deficits right now are in Eurasia and have been throughout this entire month. There's no way around it.. this has been a terrible month for snow in the critical areas. Here is a time series of the month, Oct 3, 11, 16, 22, and 25. Note the consistently below normal snow cover in Eurasia with nearly no above average pixels in Eurasia the entire month. Those maps don't square with the ones we usually look at. A giant area of red shows up over Siberia where there is clearly snow on the ground according to the NOAA maps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weathafella Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 Those maps don't square with the ones we usually look at. A giant area of red shows up over Siberia where there is clearly snow on the ground according to the NOAA maps. You are correct. Here's today.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WxUSAF Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 You are correct. Here's today.. I'd call that pretty close to normal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BethesdaWX Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 The water temperature anomalies in the N Atlantic If water temperatures in the North Atlantic mean something in relation to the NAO then why did we have all those huge -NAO periods in the mid/late 1960s to early 1970s? The -AMO and cooler SSTA's in the North Atlantic were prevolent during the deep -NAOs of that time, but the Sun's magnetic flux was low. The NAO went positive in August and September of this year, and before that happened the waters were considerably warmer up there, hence my viewpoint in that the SSTA's respond to the NAO state, not that I am necessarily correct though. Do you have any thoughts on this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BethesdaWX Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 You are correct. Here's today.. What was he posting? I can't find any dates on it. Also looks like there is the chance for some big time gains shortly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
das Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 Found this little nugget from Matt posted last month! Looks like a little more coverage of snow for Siberia this week along with some added depth Here's another one I like: http://www.star.nesdis.noaa.gov/smcd/emb/snow/images/multisensor/eurasia/recent/multisensor_4km_ea_snow_ice_map_fulres_recent.png It's a multisensor output including AVHRR, Seviri and DefenseMet SSMIS plus ground observations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skierinvermont Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 Those maps don't square with the ones we usually look at. A giant area of red shows up over Siberia where there is clearly snow on the ground according to the NOAA maps. That's b/c it was a map of the 25th and a lot of snow fell on the 26th according to the NOAA maps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Global_Warmer Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 Lots of really cold air building in the Arctic now. Good to see this time of year. Still far above normal and this is like a cold snap compared to what these graphs had the last few days. I guess we can say it's cooling past fall averages. But this should be normal since the sun is setting between 70-78N now. But no where near any real cold we have seen in the past. I won't be shocked if we never see it again for this time of year until the means change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tacoman25 Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 Still far above normal and this is like a cold snap compared to what these graphs had the last few days. I guess we can say it's cooling past fall averages. But this should be normal since the sun is setting between 70-78N now. But no where near any real cold we have seen in the past. I won't be shocked if we never see it again for this time of year until the means change. Eh, when the ice isn't growing much you focus on that. When it is, you shift your focus to temperatures. Which actually are pretty cold up there right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitchnick Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 massive gains now showing up almost to normal as of 18Z 10/26 http://www.srh.noaa....story/KHSP.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtRosen Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 Snow: 7,640 Ice: 2,404 Snow: 6,204 Ice: 2,372 I have a feeling that when we see this tomorrow, our snow pixel count will be higher than any previous year at this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
okie333 Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 Snow: 7,640 Ice: 2,404 Snow: 6,204 Ice: 2,372 I have a feeling that when we see this tomorrow, our snow pixel count will be higher than any previous year at this time. That's yesterday's map Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skierinvermont Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 FIXED TO REFLECT THE GREAT WHITE OCTOBER BLIZZARD OF 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
okie333 Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 FIXED TO REFLECT THE GREAT WHITE OCTOBER BLIZZARD OF 2011 Wow it was so powerful that it erased political boundaries!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtRosen Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 That's yesterday's map They don't have today's map when it's... today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtRosen Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 Snow: 7896 Ice: 2422 Snow: 7149 Ice: 2430 We've passed last year as far as ice coverage is concerned, but we still don't have as much snow as we did last year... even with this nor'easter. Maybe in a day we'll have more. There was just so much more snow over China last year than this year. All in all, I think we're pretty similar to last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phlwx Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 ^there's actually quite a bit less snow over Canada at this point and more over Central Russia compared to 2010. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpha5 Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 The fact that there is snow on Long Island but not in Northern Ontario completely baffles me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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